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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Wrong forum‎. (non-admin closure) Nate • (chatter) 01:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Martyrs of the Chinese Revolution

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Not even close to a NPOV name Amigao (talk) 23:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close, this should be discussed at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. Esolo5002 (talk) 01:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Guite people

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This is a clan of certain Kuki-Chin language speaking tribes. It is a well-known clan, but not notable in any other way. We don't have any other pages devoted to such clans. The topic doesn't seem to meet WP:GNG. Kautilya3 (talk) 23:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Tapani Uitos

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unnotable darts player, fails GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete All Google news yields is 3 darts related sources. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 17:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for a soft delete, hopefully a relist will make consensus more clear.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El Beeblerino ^{if you're not into the whole brevity thing} 23:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Searching the Helsingin Sanomat archives returns a pair of short mentions, nothing substantial. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 08:28, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Murders of the Castro and Youngblood children

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No lasting significance. ―Panamitsu (talk) 23:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Simon Nicholls

AfDs for this article:

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Non-notable producer, lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources, failing WP:GNG. Previous AFD in 2010 ended in Keep but editors there provided no proof of significant coverage either. Sources provided and found in Google are mere mentions of subject, while the series produced are certainly notable. -- Wikipedical (talk) 17:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:GNG guidelines. Go4thProsper (talk) 02:23, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as this discussion is not eligible for a Soft Deletion outcome.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beehunter, Indiana

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This is plainly a rail point, formerly a crossover/junction and more recently a rather odd pair of junctions. The only road in the area actually swerves to avoid the spot, and the only building is in the middle of the junction; I would gather it was once the "tower" but it's impossible to tell. I did find some explicit reference to it as a rail station/junction but other references are to the marsh or to a potential archaeological site, or to local mining activity, npne of which are not in this immediate vicinity. Mangoe (talk) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Suprisingly detailed article from 1970 talks about the history of this rail spot: [1], but states clearly that it "was never a city, nor a town, nor was it ever the home of more than one family." I will update the article accordingly. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 22:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you find a free pdf or transcript of this paper, since sources are always better when they're accessible. FLIPPINGOUT (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Try this: [2]. It continues on a second page, but this proves my point. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 23:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. One article isn't sufficient to elevate a rail point to notability. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment — I’m not sure I agree with nominator’s reasoning, as it seems to be skirting the edges of WP:OR territory. That said, I am also struggling to see how a single article from 1970 qualifies the junction for notability, particularly after glancing at the criteria set-forth by WP:NTRAINSTATION. MWFwiki (talk) 06:07, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abu Sayyaf (Islamic State leader)

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I'm not seeing any indication that this meets WP:LASTING here. Routine death in long civil war. Cutlass ^Ciera 22:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Not sure the oil and gas minister for the IS is notable, this many years later. Article is strictly around his death, without much before or after... I don't find any coverage other than about the capture. Oaktree b (talk) 23:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Not a routine death in a long civil war. Was a key senior figure how "ISIS became the world's wealthiest terror group." Subject to a number of WP:SIGCOV in the form of multiple in-depth researched profiles testifying to his importance after his death, including in NBC, WSJ, meeting WP:GNG.

Longhornsg (talk) 01:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Was a key senior figure" is not going to cut it in terms of notability. The main concern of no lasting effect is in that coverage cuts off. Cutlass ^Ciera 03:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Was" because he's dead. The relevant policy here is WP:NBASIC, which the coverage suffices. WP:LASTING applies to events, not people, anyway. Longhornsg (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Lasting does not apply to people. It is part of the event SNG, and as such does not apply to anything that is not an event. The only people-related guideline would be BIO1E, which does not apply here (many events). PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless, the article and the coverage, as stated by Oaktree b, is strictly about his death. There isn't any other evidence that he is notable besides his way of death. Cutlass ^Ciera 14:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is very clearly not true. The WSJ piece is about his entire life. PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Longhornsg. There does seem to be sourcing attesting to his importance. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Longhornsg Andre🚐 04:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re.press

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Article does not meet WP:GNG, sources are comprised of 4 personal blogs, 2 subpages from the subjects website, and 1 post from a defunct small publishers community which contained the subject. No other reliable sources can be found on the subject, and searches only turn up books printed by the subject. CitrusHemlock 23:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. It's not difficult to find published reviews of their books. There's also some coverage of them (via an interview with their founder, but independently published) at [3]. Whether that and the existing bloggy sources amounts to GNG notability is another question. —David Eppstein (talk) 08:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not seeing enough for GNG Andre🚐 03:03, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El Beeblerino ^{if you're not into the whole brevity thing} 23:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Beyoncé pop culture references

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Taking this to AFD since a PROD was contested. The page appears to violate WP:INDISCRIMINATE when bloated with lots of trivia and minor mentions of Beyoncé. We're not supposed to be a repository of whenever someone simply alludes to a celebrity or explicitly brings up their name, so I recommend deletion. That simply is a collection of fancruft. It also doesn't help that the list is full of inappropriate POV and tone. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, unnecessary collection of trivia. Not everything should be listed in this encyclopedia, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Its notable entries, if any, could be merged to Cultural impact of Beyoncé. Bluesatellite (talk) 01:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I thoroughly enjoyed researching to make this page (and I have to give thanks to the countless others who contributed and made tweaks), but the opposition (instead of constructive advice or actual editing) at every turn got annoying and you guys simply cannot make up your minds. This page actually began as part of the page Cultural impact of Beyoncé, but was recommended to be spun off in another discussion. Here we are again. I know I will see a similar "repository" in a few months' time for some other artist with none of the opposition, and the same users commenting here will be willing to work or provide advice to improve POV and tone there instead of merely complaining about it. C'est la vie. Trainsskyscrapers (talk) 02:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I appreciate the effort of page's creator to collect info and sort it. However, I also agree this is WP:INDISCRIMINATE. A category would be useful. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:19, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to Cultural impact of Beyoncé. Strong oppose to outright deletion, per WP:ATD-R. There is no need to nuke this, some content might be useful for the target. Ping Apoxyomenus - you may want to reconsider delete vs redirect here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Trainsskyscrapers @Bluesatellite I actually meant to ping only Train... but why not, everyone, this does not need to be TNTed out of history. Redirecting is exactly what is needed here. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TheoTown

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The page was deleted multiple times for A7 and G11 reasons, so I figure having a full deletion discussion might be worth it. The only sources given are primary: the game's website, and the Steam/App Store/Google Play pages and ratings. The only sources I could find were a self-published blog explicitly including affiliate links, and this review, whose website appears to have an editorial team but for which I'm not sure how reliable it is, as only one of the members is an accredited journalist. Still, assuming this counts as a RS, a single source isn't enough for WP:GNG. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Agree with what's explained above, there isn't much in the way of product reviews for this app. I don't find much else either. Oaktree b (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: per nom
Mithilanchalputra (Talk) 11:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete This is much more borderline - a search on my end found two RS reviews: one from TouchArcade [4] another from 148Apps [5] and a non-RS listicle from GamingEsports [6] and brief mention in Wireframe [7]. I would consider this to be notable if one more RS or solid review could be located. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 08:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot! Just curious, where did you do your WP:BEFORE? I only did a cursory search (first pages of Google and Google News), but I'm curious if there are better places to look for video game-related sources. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mix of Google search, Internet Archive, and WP:VG/SE. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 11:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That last link is great to have, thanks a lot! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Little information I have found that can demonstrate notability.--Bexaendos (talk) 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the article will be deleted since there will be no information about the game, I propose to publish more information. 2800:810:544:AF:8DC6:DFBF:DB1A:7522 (talk) 17:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? You can ask sources to publish more information, although it might take longer than the time this AfD runs, but we can't add more information that sources haven't published. Although the sources provided above can definitely be added in the article, and are a good first step. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I will suggest moving it to the draft space, allowing the JJP to improve its sourcing and content as article seems not to be ready for mainspace. Nxcrypto Message 16:13, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep.This is a decent sized game with a decent audience. I play the game a lot and the discord server had over 10,000 members. BooCooE ^(talk) 17:13, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ILIKEIT λ NegativeMP1 20:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - There's a print review from Gameplay magazine: [8], when combined with TouchArcade's review: [9], that's 2 reliable reviews. And there's reviews from 148Apps and Softonic: [10]], [11], according to WP:VG/S, there are inconclusive discussions of their reliability, so until they are determined to be unreliable, I'm leaning keep on this one. --Mika1h (talk) 00:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding these sources! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:15, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is great work finding more sources! Caution that the Softonic review is nonattributed and its evaluative aspects are a pretty meaningless single word salad paragraph: "rich and engaging gameplay experience...challenging and rewarding experience...engaging and immersive." Comes off a bit WP:PROMO or gAI. If the Gameplay review is WP:SIGCOV this probably does enter the territory of keep, but it's WP:OFFLINE. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 07:00, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sanjay Sehgal

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I removed the PROD tag from this article since it was already PRODed once. Page was also speedy deleted under WP:G11 twice before, and subject appears to be non-notable.

The editor who added the PROD tag provided the following rationale:

Clearly fails WP:GNG/WP:NBIO. Quick run-down of the five existing refs: Ref 1 is openly sponsored content, ref 2 is a Q&A/interview with the subject, ref 3 is a post by the subject, ref 4 is is a Q&A/interview with the subject (accompanied by a short bio/introduction), and ref 5 is a press release, presumably by the subject or one of their companies (although it's not transparently indicated that it's a PR on the website, the text, which can be found on a few other "news" websites, follows a PR template for this kind of "news", see, e.g., basically the same release for another person and another one). All other sources I see are also either primary (interviews etc.) or non-independent. The subject seems to have received some awards/honors but none of them are notable afaics (like the kind of award/honor mentioned in ref 2) (proposed by Felida97).

CycloneYoris ^talk! 21:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Iamdikeh

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Simply fails WP:GNG or WP:ENT. Also fails the explanatory essay at WP:NYOUTUBER. Pieces from the sources are either WP:INDEPENDENT or unreliable. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: The subject does not meet the general notability criteria nor the SNG for creative. The sources are not a) independent (they’re mostly sponsored or interviews) b) reliable (example is the famousnaija blog). Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of ZIP Code prefixes

AfDs for this article:

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Two years on, and every issue from the first round is still here. Again, the information from here does not agree with the list in Sectional center facility, and the latter information is correct, and this is not. Last time I pointed out that 207 was wrong, and yes, it's different, but it's still wrong: 207 has nothing to do with Silver Spring, and the actual name of the SCF is "Southern Maryland". It still doesn't step up to the issue that many SCFs serve zip codes in multiple states. If someone wants to make the listing in the SCF article into a table, I'd be fine with that, and this could be redirected there. But as it is, this is a magnet for misinformation and needs to cease to exist as it stands, and it should not be merged into the other article, because it is mostly wrong. Mangoe (talk) 16:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Delete. I can't exactly verify the misinformation, not that that's truly a reason for deletion, but I'll just say that WP:NLIST is not met for the prefixes specifically. The rock solid source from last time is a primary source and doesn't count towards independence. However, I am willing to change my !vote if there are sources that say otherwise, or if there is a case that shows how a list of zip codes would be easier in this format than showing all 41,704 zip codes. Conyo14 (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Orientls (talk) 05:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: So far, deletion looks likely, but given that this is the 2nd nomination, even a little more discussion would help make sure this is settled.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arbian

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Unnotable neighbourhood in Pakistan. I couldn't find any information about it on the Internet. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 15:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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It was a redirect to Keamari Town, should that be restored? Though its not mentioned there. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think so. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect to Keamari Town. If there were any information about Arbian it could go in a section of that article, but there is literally no info on eikipedia about this place. It could be that the main motivation for the article's existence is to make Google Maps searches have something to say about it. This article feeds directly into the "Quick Facts" part of Google Maps for Arbian. Davemc0 (talk) 23:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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University of Brahmanbaria

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The article is mess, WP:NOTPROMO. It fails both WP:NSCHOOL and WP:GNG. A WP:BEFORE resulted in only few press release, appointment announcement, and navigational maps. The sources mentioned within the article do not pass WP:RS, 1 being press release statement, source 2 leads to a blank website (at least for me), source 3 is an announcement and source 4 is University's official website. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 15:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I have removed unsourced sourced content and added more references.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Daily Star 1 – Trivial / WP:ROUTINE, fails WP:SIGCOV
- Dhaka Tribune – Trivial / Focuses on an incident happened at Brahmanbaria district, fails SigCov
- Daily Star 2 – Same as Dhaka Tribune, fails WP:SIGCOV
- Business Post – Trivial / Focuses on broader issues affecting private universities in the country, likely mentioning the subject as one example, fails SigCov
- Daily Star 3 – This is one good source to count, discusses a local environmental issues with the subject in non-trivial mention, passes SigCov
- NewAge BD – Trivial / Announcement / WP:ROUTINE, fails SigCov
- Daily Sun – Trivial / Announcement / Press-release WP:ROUTINE, fails SigCov
With the newly added sources, none appear to meet the GNG nor WP:NSCHOOL to keep this article. Most of the sources seem to fall under WP:ROUTINE or

WP:ORGTRIV with only one providing WP:SIGCOV but fails WP:ORGDEPTH for this subject to be a stand-alone article. Also, the subject is a for-profit private institution, WP:NORG must be met. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 17:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with the above analysis of the new sources and MimsMENTOR is also correct that as a new startup private and for-profit university, this certainly needs to meet WP:NORG. We are looking for multiple independent reliable secondary sources that have significant coverage that meets WP:ORGDEPTH. Even the dailystar article therefore falls short of WP:SIRS] being a news report about the courts finding the plan to lease lands in favour of the university to be illegal. This is WP:PRIMARYNEWS. We are clearly WP:TOOSOON for this new venture and the page is essentially promotional. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete. Page does not satisfy the notability guidelines for organization. Poor sources on the page with no significant coverage. Fails WP:NSCHOOL. RangersRus (talk) 01:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nam Suat

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Unnotable watercourse in Thailand. It has no sources for 8 years. I could not find anything about it on the Internet. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 15:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Couldn't find anything about the subject with a search other than this article. Fails WP:GNG. Madeleine961 (talk) 15:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Thailand. Bobby Cohn (talk) 15:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Not found in the Royal Society's Gazetteer,[12] which is expected to include most geographical features. The river does exist, though, and gives its name to the forest along its basin as ป่าน้ำสวด "Nam Suat Forest" (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL), which is part of Tham Sakoen National Park and Mae Yom National Park. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found this announcement [13] --Lerdsuwa (talk) 05:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. A search for "น้ำสวด" "แม่น้ำยม", the Thai forms of "Nam Suat" "Yom River", shows plenty of sources. It is a sizeable stream, flows through an important teak forest, floods badly, is threatened by a dam and so on. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- For results that are actually about the river, I'm only seeing data points form hydrological databases, and a single Facebook post. Nothing that could be considered in-depth. Everything else is about the forest named after the river, but not the river itself. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Aymatth2; a river of this size is going to pass WP:NGEO. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect back to Yom River, and remove the circular link, which was probably why the article was created in the first place. There are simply no sources to base an article on. If there are only mentions of the name in regard to the forest, that might be the better topic to cover, but there's already a more suitable place for that, in the national park articles. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are handicapped by not understanding the Thai language. The search for "น้ำสวด" "แม่น้ำยม" gives sources that use those exact forms of the river and parent names. It may well miss other sources that discuss the river in more depth. Some sources mention a proposed dam and a later proposal for two smaller dams, both presumably affecting the river. The teak forest covers the river's watershed, and is special. The fact that there is a hydrological station on the river indicates some importance. The flow of 5.28 cubic metres per second (186 cu ft/s) at Ban Wang Yao is rather more than that of the River Lea at Feildes Weir, Hoddesdon. It is reasonable to assume that other sources must exist for a river of this size. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am a native Thai speaker, as indicated on my user page. I'm not seeing any in-depth coverage about the river at all. The reports about the dam that I'm seeing only say that its location will be in "Pa Nam Yao and Pa Nam Suat Reserved Forest", while the watercourse being dammed is Nam Ki, a different stream/river. That sources should exist might be a reasonable assumption, but if actual efforts to identify them aren't turning up anything usable, then the assumption is proven invalid. If you're seeing results that you think should be usable, Why don't you share specific links so that I can help take a look? --Paul_012 (talk) 07:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Searching is quite difficult because the results are heavily polluted by the word สวด in the meaning of chant/prayer. However, it does appear that the river is also commonly refferred to as "ลำน้ำสวด" and "ลำน้ำห้วยสวด", which reveal hits such as a brief mention, among other rivers, of flooding in this 2014 news report[14], and mentions here and there among local government websites saying that the river flows through their village[15]. There is one result that's likely in-depth, a research paper presented at Valaya Alongkorn Rajabhat University's annual conference in 2018 titled ปัญหาการพังทลายของตลิ่งลำน้ำสวดและแนวทางการป้องกันอย่างยั่งยืน (The problem of bank erosion of Lam Nam Suat and methods for sustainable prevention)[16]. It's very likely to contain a description of the river, but the full text is not available online anywhere (the conference proceedings were hosted on Google Drive, and are all down). That's one potential source that might contribute to notability, but without anything that could be used to write something more than a completely uninformative substub (Where is the river? What is its course? What is its significance?), redirecting (without prejudice) would still seem to be best option for now. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Possibly [17] could be used to locate the river (coordinate PA 527815, wherever that is). If we could see it on a map that might suggest search terms. And [18] may give enough information to justify a stand-alone article, if we could see it. Geographical items do not need to meet the same rigorous criteria as people, and it seems that a river this size should be notable. But if we cannot find proof, a redirect is second best. I would prefer to redirect to a section in the parent, e,g, #redirect Yom River#Nam Suat, and give all available information in that section. I can take a shot at that based on the sources found so far. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's partially mapped on Openstreetmap as ลำน้ำสวด, but as a user-generated primary source we can't use it for much. It does show that it flows into the Nam Pi น้ำปี้, which agrees with the hydrographical diagram at [19]. I couldn't find anything relevant searching the two together, but while Nam Pi is also an unreferenced stub, it does have an entry in the Royal Society Gazetteer (which doesn't mention the Nam Suat though).[20] Maybe that should be the redirect target, as the next-order tributary. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Damian Falisiewicz

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Semi-professional footballer without evidence of meeting WP:GNG. The only secondary source I found is Dziennik Wschodni, a brief mention in transfer announcement. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Poland. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 20:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Al-Mustariha massacre

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Non-notable massacre or air strike. One of the source (ANHA - Hawar News Agency) is linked to the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). ANHA is forbidden in Turkey because it's seen as a propaganda tool of SDF, therefore I have no idea about what exactly is written in the source. Other source (arabi21.com) don't talk about Al-Mustariha or even a kind of massacre commited by Turkish air force. I'm not sure can we create an artice about every air strike and can we name every air strike as a massacre. I found no reliable sources online. I think it fails WP:RS and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. If there is a real massacre, this page can be used: List of massacres during the Syrian civil war.--Sabri76'^talk 14:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

Comment As mentioned above, neither of the two listed sources describe the event in question. However, there are other sites online that do, such as here and here, but no major news agency has reported on it yet. --Leviavery (talk) 16:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned below, SOHR just make news of anouncement of SDF controlled Raqqa Governorate. Turkey has made lots of air strikes and some of them might kill some civillians but I mean we need more reliable sources that air strike is a massacre. SDF/PYD controlled news agency ANFA try to create a perception that Turkish Air Force deliberately bombed a civillian house for order to ensure the emigration of the people. We're sure there were many airstrike and some soldiers and civillians are killer but we're not sure is this a massacre or an ordinary air strike. SDF-PYD don't want loose their areas because they want autonomy and independence if it's possible in the future. Therefore they create news like that for gaining inrernational support against Türkey. Therefore wikipedians should be suspicious about these type of claims and need more reliable sources. We have to ask what makes this event (air strike) special if we consider last bloody 10 years of Syrian Civil War?--Sabri76'^talk 20:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree ANHA shouldn’t be used, it’s clearly not reliable considering the context, but SOHR is a reliable source. As other sources have started to emerge confirming the details, I don’t see a need to delete the article. Please keep WP:NPOV in mind, as both Turkish and Kurdish aligned sources have bias. Flalf^Talk 01:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aleppo | Turkish drone kills 11 SDF fighters in eastern countryside - The Syrian Observatory For Human Rights

SOHR itself calls them to be fighters, though this article calls it massacre of civilians by the Turkish Armed Forces. AscendencyXXIV (talk) 14:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete:
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Military, Syria, and Turkey. Shellwood (talk) 14:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support The whole article of such an important event only has two references, thus the mentioned sources lack overall credibility - there's no report from any respectable/well-known media agency. AscendencyXXIV (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slight Keep SOHR is a reliable source, and while the coverage is limited as of now, this leads me to believe that there is more to come. Flalf^Talk 17:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SOHR shared the anouncement of SDF-led Raqqa Governorate and it says "191 air strikes". If this is a massacre, how about other 190 air strikes and dead bodies? If it's a systematic air strike massacre, why there is no other news and why big city centres are not bombed? SOHR also says totally 20 civilians killed in air strikes besides 32 SDF soldiers and 3 Assad regime soldiers. Also massacre is so disputed concept in this civil war. For example in here civillians died besides soldiers and I've searched key word of "massacre". I've found that just SDF (YPG) asserted Turkey committed a massacre against civilians and the source belongs to SOHR. I think using only the SOHR source prevents the objectivity of the event. The event in the article is the killing of soldiers and civilians as a result of air strikes and I think that it is not necessary to open a separate article since it is not a sui generis event in this civil war.--Sabri76'^talk 17:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (weak). Coverage in SOHR ([21]) and New Arab ([22]). Suggest a requested move for the title. Longhornsg (talk) 23:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The massacre occurred today, and we have two reliable sources reporting on it as mentioned above. It's also worth noting that the Arabic divisions of Sky News and The Independent have both covered this attack. Biases within Kurdish sources such as ANHA should be taken into account, but most Kurdish sources I've seen source SOHR instead of SDF. Jebiguess (talk) 01:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question: All news are based on SOHR and SOHR based on Raqqa Governorate. No photographs or witnesses in the news. Even if we accept this event is real but still no one has answered these questions yet: Does the bombing of a building make it noteworthy? Should an article be created for it or should it be simply moved to page List of massacres during the Syrian civil war ? In List of massacres page, Turkey wasn't mentioned. Is this a new and only massacre from at the beginng of the Syria war? If 190 air strike kills SDF-YPG soldiers and one of them kills civillians, is this make a massacre? Are you sure that it is a massacre instead of an air strike? For examle we have this article: April 2017 Turkish airstrikes in Syria and Iraq. Also civillians killed in those air strikes. This article was created to show that Turkey only carries out air strike to massacre innocent civilians. However, this airstrike is only one of 191 airstrikes against the SDF-YPG, and how neutral is it to open an article for a building that was bombed intentionally or accidentally? Israel also killed 6 civillians in this air strike (2024 Homs airstrikes) Why this is not a massacre?--Sabri76'^talk 06:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Offer: (My offer is valid provided that there is a consensus that the article should remain) I've found Turkish-based English news and I can see the photos. Therefore, I propose to change the title of the article as 2024 Turkish airstrikes in Syria, because Turkey does not want an autonomous or independent PKK-affiliated structure to be established in northern Syria and therefore, it is highly possible that operations will continue and air strikes will increase. Thus, this article will be open to develop for further actions.--Sabri76'^talk 06:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Update: My opinion is this is not a noteworthy event for creating an article unlike air strikes in Syria. If you want to see real massacre about Turkish Air Force, Roboski massacre is most popular one and this was widely discussed in the Turkish media and parliament for many years. If you have a consensus about this event is a massacre you can mention in here: List of massacres during the Syrian civil war. However this article but there are no sources to prove that it was a massacre. However massive air strikes are a fact.--Sabri76'^talk 10:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don’t understand your opposition. I’m not anti-Turkish or trying to push a narrative, as a Wikipedian I’m simply trying to encourage documentation of facts. There is now a significant amount of independent coverage (particularly in Arab language sources) and even of a Turkish source (as you provided). [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] Perhaps there should additionally be made an article about the more general air strikes, but this refers to a specific event.
    
    Also as I mentioned earlier, please keep WP:NPOV in mind. I understand you are Turkish, but you should remember to consider your own biases, especially in sanctioned areas such as around Kurdish related topics. Flalf^Talk 16:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AscendencyXXIV:, @Flalf:, @Braganza: I'm convinced about reality of the event and this discussion can be closed with a consensus, but I still have doubts about the definition of massacre, I think it's about moving the title and it's not the topic of here. I do not have any bias on issues related to Kurds, but I see a lot of systematic Turkophobia in the English Wikipedia, which is supposed to be unbiased. There is such a high level of prejudice against Turks on wikipedia that I don't participate in discussions because of the risk of being labeled as a nationalist even by writing a sentence, but calling the Turkish Air Force as mass murderer because one of the 191 bombings led to the death of innocents doesn't sound neutral at all. If the creator of the article hadn't used the word "massacre" but said "air strike", this article wouldn't have attracted my attention. I have heard on the news that they've been carrying out air strikes in recent days, but massacre is a very big claim. I would like to invite you to the page to get your views on the topic related to the title, I apologize for keeping this place busy.--Sabri76'^talk 17:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Closing Discussion I think it’s fair to say the title is more in dispute than the article itself and that the deletion discussion should be closed in favor of a Request for Move.
Flalf^Talk 18:09, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

support closure Braganza (talk) 07:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- - I've changed my mind because I still cannot find the location of Al-Mustariha. News says it's in the west of Ayn Issa and north of Raqqa, but we just see Mustariha village in Idlib. Before this news, there's no information about Al-Mustariha village in Ayn Issa. This is so weird. Almost I've found a Mustariha in Hama Governorate. Why I cannot find the location? If we cannot find the location, could we presume that event took place in Ayn Issa Province? I've used VPN and I've seen ANHA news which says 12 dead people but SOHR says 11 civillians. I think one of 12 killed people is SDF-YPG soldier but ANHA didn't mention it because of ideological background of news agency. SOHR used the Raqqa Governorate's statement and it's normal ı think. However, it is very interesting why all the websites reporting the news only stick to the SOHR announcement and don't clarify the location of the village. There are photos, but not finding any information about the location of the village or any information about the village before the incident makes me suspicious. A few small opposition websites in Turkey, known to be close to the HDP, reported this news. No medium or large-scale news website, also known internationally, mentioned this incident. I am contributing to this page for the first time, but I would like to ask if this is normal. The level of media freedom in Turkey may be low and therefore some news may be ignored, but if it is serious enough to be covered, I ask why other large or medium-sized news agencies didn't report it. Don't misunderstand me, I don't claim bombings and deaths didn't occur.--Sabri76'^talk 23:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doctor Worm

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I am nominating the articles on the following They Might Be Giants songs for deletion. Almost all of these articles were created between 2003 and 2006 (an era that surely had a large overlap of Wikipedians and TMBG fans) and do not hold up to contemporary notability standards.

It looks like these articles all fail WP:NSONG. They Might Be Giants might be giants, but that doesn't make these songs notable. The only sources cited in these articles are either primary sources or album reviews, and the content can be merged into the respective albums.
Though the article Boss of Me is also in a poor state, I do not think it should be deleted, as I can find some sources that exist. e.g., Panama City News Herald, 2001 I cannot find non-trivial coverage of the songs I have listed, even ones as popular as "Ana Ng", but would be happy to be proven wrong. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Demeter Ritter von Tuschinski

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I’m sending these two articles to AfD upon the suggestion of another user who requested assistance in doing so. For the moment, I have no particular opinion on the matter, though I may vote as the discussion progresses. Biruitorul ^Talk 21:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page:

Delete. Article on a minor local official, clearly does not meet WP:GNG. Created by a relative as part of a family history project and including much WP:OR. See for example (at the foot of the article): Demeter von Tuschinski's great-grandson Alexander Tuschinski (*1988 in Stuttgart) is a film director and historian. As of 2024, he is researching Demeter von Tuschinski's life and plans to publish a scholarly biography of him. In November 2023, he gave his first public lecture on his research at Bukowina-Institut an der Universität Augsburg, in which he presented the first comprehensive biographical overview of his great-grandfather to date.[citation needed]. Axad12 (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the author, I object the deletion, as I am certain notability is firmly established in both cases:

Demeter Ritter von Tuschinski was the highest-ranking Romanian civil servant (edited: English terminology corrected), in interwar Romanian Cernauti, and he was constantly present in public sources until 1940. The Wikipedia article names only some of the approx. 2000 press articles that exist. If he is not considered notable, then, by that logic, no state officials and public figures of equal or lower ranks from interwar Cernauti/Bukovina or other major Romanian cities/regions would be notable enough for Wikipedia. By extension, most people named here would have to be deleted: [Category:20th-century_Romanian_judges] - which cannot be the goal of Wikipedia.

Constantin Ritter von Tuschinski, for example, in the 1960s-80s published in both of the two most major, widely circulated and heavily curated German-language Romanian cultural magazines of the era, Volk und Kultur and Neue Literatur. Romanian press wrote about his plays. If none of that is "notable" it would mean that suddenly, many authors who published there and shaped the German-language Romanian 1960s-80s cultural scene would be stripped of their notability, which would (seemingly at random) suddenly exclude a huge part of majorly published Romanian German-language culture from Wikipedia. I plan at some point to create pages for those magazines and other authors who published there - and I am convinced of their notability, particularly given the strict regulations for publishing in Socialist Romania. I'm currently researching the magazine "Volk und Kultur" and its archive for the second volume of Constantin's collected works.

I am Demeter Ritter von Tuschinski's great-grandson, which I always openly stated when creating the articles. Both Demeter and Constantin passed away before I was born. I created and researched both articles over several months, and I am currently getting my PhD in history at University Innsbruck about Demeter Ritter von Tuschinski's biography. I wrote the articles in a neutral and academic way, careful to not write a subjective view, but only to quote from sources, much like I write my PhD dissertation. I intend to expand both in the future. Except for Axad12 (who recently added a COI tag and told me he would nominate my account to be blocked if I ever wrote about a relative on Wikipedia again), I heard no objections to the articles, and the objections he voiced on his talk page refer to me being related, not on the content of the article. I believe articles shall be judged independently of who the author is. Every part in the articles is supported by a footnote - the one part Axad12 quotes with [citation needed] originally had a reference to an academic presentation I had held, that another editor removed, and which I plan to replace with a link to a current press article after the deletion discussion. ATuschinski (talk) 00:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a brief note to correct what appears to be a misunderstanding on the part of the editor above. I did not tell him that I would nominate [his] account to be blocked if [he] ever wrote about a relative on Wikipedia again. What I have said to him, several times now, is that editors with a COI should use the COI edit request process rather than editing the relevant articles directly, and that if he continues to edit such articles directly (including articles about himself and his film projects) after being advised not to do so on multiple occasions then I shall report the matter to either WP:COIN or WP:ANI, in which case it would be reasonable to assume that his account may be blocked.

However, I do thank the editor above for confirming that much of the work on both of his two family history articles are based on his own original research (i.e. WP:OR).

I would also note that notability, from Wikipedia's standpoint, is based on specific criteria and not on a family member's subjective opinion on whether his family members were 'notable'. Axad12 (talk) 07:13, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Axad12, perhaps it's a misunderstanding, since I am confident you use the WP:OR argument incorrectly here: The extend of my original research can be seen in the footnotes of the articles - mostly links to digitized newspapers, and many weeks of browsing through them online, in addition to newspapers and books available at libraries. I link to the online sources wherever possible. If that were not allowed on Wikipedia, nobody could add or edit anything that requires research in sources that are available online or at libraries. Only at very few spots, I refer to archival files, including their signature (if available) for people curious to check them out. By now, if prefered by the community, I could even replace all of the few archival footnotes with ones to a book I recently published, which is currently added to major libraries. Constantin's bibliography that I made you aware of, which you likely have in mind saying "based on his original research", I was able to put together after months of research in Cluj library's public holdings and by browsing Romanian pre-1984 journals. Anyone can read them at respective libraries; I identified and mention each one in a footnote. Again, if that were against Wikipedia's standards, nobody could add anything gathered from browsing books or journals to this encyclopedia. ATuschinski (talk) 09:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Demeter was, perhaps, the highest-ranked civil servant in Cernauti. He was not the highest-ranked state official: after all, the city had a mayor, representatives in parliament, a prefect, and so on. Let’s be precise. Biruitorul ^Talk 08:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Biruitorul, thanks for the correction, please excuse my mixup in terminology - I did mean to say "civil servant", of course. I guess even though I am careful, that little slip in wording reveals I am not an English native speaker: I translated the German term "Staatsbeamter", that was named in the German-language source, which literally translates to "state official", but the correct translation is "civil servant" :-) I just did correct that terminology in the intro of the article, as well - in the body, I already wrote the correct term "civil servant". Thanks for bringing it to attention. ATuschinski (talk) 09:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Law, Military, and Romania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comfr (talk) 04:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)===Luigi Mangione===[reply]

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Delete per nom. E_F⁵ 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This article is wholly unnecessary, and it has duplicate scope with Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect. guninvalid (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~As with the MfD, this is probably going to WP:SNOWBALL Delete. Leave it as redirect, if even that.~~ guninvalid (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep of course, WP:BLP1E clearly states as the third requirement for omitting someone on that basis 3. The event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented. and then proceeds to provide examples. We have significant reliable sources, the content in the article is verifiable and the subject of the article, even in these early days, receives consistent ongoing coverage. Little reason to believe this article won't simply continue to expand. —Locke Cole • t • c 20:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and keep working on the Killing of Brian Thompson article. Reason 1 According to WP:PERPETRATOR, a separate article of someone only known in connection with a crime or trial should not normally be a separate article but may be created "only if this is necessitated by considerations of article size." Killing of Brian Thompson currently is 4,107 words, whereas article split criteria is >8,000 words for "May need to be divided or split" per WP:SIZERULE.

Reason 2: WP:PERPETRATOR also does say "Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured." I do think the subject meets contemporaneous notability, but based on the article size criteria not being met and there being no conviction yet, I do not think there should be an article on this topic yet.

Reason 3: I am also not sure if the historical significance criteria in WP:PERP has been met yet as “Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role.” All the reporting on the subject is currently contemporaneous. Maybe the Killing of Brian Thompson article scope could be expanded, or are we not supposed to be putting suspect biographical info there? Wafflefrites (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep very clearly notable with the amount of media coverage and large online fanbase- if this were merged into Killing of Brian Thompson then the latter would rapidly become a WP:COAT article. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 23:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and United States of America. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:BLP1E Andre🚐 23:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect and protect. Wikipedia's longstanding consensus is not to have a standalone article on a person accused of a crime who has not yet been found guilty. For now, we have not seen either condition met for a standalone article on a perpetrator per WP:CRIM: The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities; or The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role. Thompson was not a "renowned national or international figure" prior to his killing, and we are not yet at the point of weighing the "historic significance" of the event. Furthermore, creating this page treads on WP:CRIM's guidance that Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured. If/when Mangione is found guilty, this page can come right back. For now, the redirect to Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect should be restored and protected to enforce this consensus pending a verdict. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete with no prejudice against recreating at a later date if Killing of Brian Thompson gets too long or something changes to justify a separate article. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 01:36, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - absolute given. notable given the coverage around him. More coverage is focused on him than the target. 97.115.189.88 (talk) 02:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Guy is famous enough by now. Then again, Dclemens1971 makes a valid point. The thing is that it is only sometimes that we get really picky about our guidelines and it's especially so in the case of crime/criminal, and I don't really see the point of that pickiness. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I get the impulse to go WP:IAR here, but the redirect both meets informational needs and upholds the consensus guidelines. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My main reason is because of WP:BLPCT. BLPs are contentious topics per arbitration enforcement committee. With contentious topics, you must “comply with all applicable policies and guidelines”. Having come from over a year of editing in another CT area on Wikipedia, I definitely know that Ignore All Rules does not apply to contentious topics. Wafflefrites (talk) 02:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above.-🐦DrWho42👻 02:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
delete as per Dclemens1971. There is no need yet for an article about the suspect. This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. We don't have to add every detail about him that the media reports. The Killing of Brian Thompson limits narrowly what we can say about the suspect, because we are only including things related to the crime and his alleged involvement. And that's how it should be. Kingturtle = (talk) 02:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Chessrat's reasoning. Kyleroo (talk) 03:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Locke_Cole's response above. The article is already long as it is. It's inevitable that more information will continue to flow in especially in the coming weeks. Kokaynegeesus (talk) 04:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: California, Hawaii, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Chessrat's reasoning. [[Comfr (talk) 04:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)]][reply]
Keep He is clearly notable and is receiving plenty of media coverage. Here's a couple of articles that are primarily focused on him and not the killing [23][24][25][26][27][28] There's currently content in the Killing of Brian Thompson article (i.e. the last paragraph of the #Possible motives and views section) regarding his views/political views, etc. that are more appropriate for a biography than for the event article. Some1 (talk) 04:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per WP:CRIME articles on perpetrators are deemed notable if motivation for the crime is unusual - Mangione has had extensive media coverage about his motives allegedly being a revenge killing. The execution of the crime has also been covered as being meticulously planned. I don't think WP:BLP1E applies to this page as the event is significant and the individual's role is substantial - there seems to be more coverage on him than the actual victim. jolielover♥talk 05:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Dclemons. Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect already has all the content, because it is all relevant to the event. The sources above are still within the sphere of the killing and its background and response. A WP:DUPLICATE WP:REDUNDANT page or is not warranted. Reywas92^Talk 05:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - that is what i am leaning toward.--In 2011, this killer had an article (and is still in isolation, even though a model prisoner). Wiki's guidelines have not changed significantly since then, regarding suspects. The killer had an article two days after the crime - and a year before the first conviction. 2001:2020:32F:E6A2:E8A1:CBF8:BC0:B10E (talk) 05:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Responsibly written and very well sourced. The subject is receiving new reliable coverage from quality sources every day. There is intense interest, and this responsibly written article is a strong example of the excellence of Wikipedia in providing reliable and current information. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article should be allowed to continue, collecting the best sources as they arrive. Should coverage not continue long term, only then should it possibly be redirected as a flash in the pan lacking ongoing interest. Given the current ongoing coverage, it is not reasonable to assume that there will not be long term interest. SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect to Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect. A person who is accused of a crime is innocent until proven guilty. Wikipedia should not have a separate article about a suspect who is only notable for the crime he is accused of, before conviction. see WP:CRIME in addition to WP:SUSPECT. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 07:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep; withdrawn‎. (non-admin closure) Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rescue (documentary series)

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I can find no independent coverage of this Channel 4 TV docu-series from 1996, not even on Channel 4's own website. The article is virtually unsourced, but I found the book that was published based on the series. However, without independent secondary coverage (reviews, etc.), this TV show fails WP:GNG. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and United Kingdom. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with List_of_Channel_4_television_programmes#News,_documentaries_and_current_affairs -Mushy Yank. 23:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But this is pre-Internet, a Coventry Evening Telegraph article is mentioned, the title is super generic, it's narrated by John Peel, so not opposed to Keep. -Mushy Yank. 23:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok with a redirect, in principle, but the docuseries is not listed there. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:10, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hence my merge proposal. -Mushy Yank. 00:13, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mushy Yank If I go ahead and do a WP:BOLD merge, do you consent to my withdrawing this nomination and saving us all some time? Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely; thank you. -Mushy Yank. 00:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Speedy keep; withdrawn. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Koeut Pich

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No evidence that this football player passes WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. The only sources I could turn up (or in the article) are databases, routine match coverage and routine transfer coverage. If you find any sources in Cambodian I may have missed, please ping me. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I did find Post Khmer (translated) but it's not enough. Current article's sources not enough for either guideline. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reth Lyheng

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I can't find sufficient WP:SIGCOV in independent, secondary sources for this footballer to pass WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. We have perhaps one here but we need more. It's entirely possible I missed something in Cambodian, so please ping me if you know of additional sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dany Marques

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Entire professional career was 15 minutes in two substitute games in the second division. Another example of a player who passed the antiquated WP:NFOOTY but falls far short of WP:GNG. There's a source for him joining Académica but that's...academic...if he did nothing of note for the club. [29] This obviously doesn't count for notability or not, but this club Facebook post (note the different spelling) may indicate that the subject is deceased, just thought I'd say. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zé Miguel Esteves

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Entire professional career was the 12-minute League Cup debut mentioned in the text (for a second division club). Never played a game in second division or higher, and a Google search is just giving me database results (his playing name, short for José Miguel, is very common, but even when combined with a club, yields me no sources). Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I found a brief article on Futebol Distrital de Leiria but it's certainly not enough Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Premachi Goshta (TV series)

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Edit war between three editors attempting to redirect and a LOUTSOCK who keeps removing. Looking at the sources, they are all unreliable as churnalism, general announcements, and WP:NEWSORGINDIA. Recommend redirect to Yeh Hai Mohabbatein which is the show this is based off of. Although, would also request protection of the title if that happens. CNMall41 (talk) 18:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Yeh Hai Mohabbatein#Adaptations: but given the fact that the plot is different, it has an obviously different cast, including notable actors, and coverage about this ongoing apparently popular series with almost 300 episodes exists I am really not opposed to Keep. What I am very opposed to is deletion. -Mushy Yank. 20:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: The show passes WP:NTVNATL straightway. There is ample coverage on its production, plot summaries (episodic), and cast updates, all supporting notability (majority being from Marathi media). There’s no strong basis for deletion. After the deletion discussion (if it remains), a request for article protection could be pursued.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 12:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Consensus split between redirect and keep.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 19:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Yeh Hai Mohabbatein#Adaptations. Per nom. RangersRus (talk) 00:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Onais Bascome

AfDs for this article:

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Fails notability and significant coverage criteria. This article is just a list of squads he was picked for and all the cited sources are routine match reports and squad listings. Shrug02 (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Neutral. There isn't much substance to the article, but he would have met the minimum inclusion criteria that were in place at the time (i.e., having played international cricket for an ICC associate nation in a global qualifier). The goalposts have shifted since then, and I agree that articles shouldn't be created for players if even if they do meet the minimum eligibility criteria unless there is a decent amount of information beyond squad selections. Bs1jac (talk) 14:24, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Bermuda Twenty20 International cricketers as I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Please ping me if sources are found. JTtheOG (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the proposer of this AFD I agree the suggested redirect would also be an adequate alternative. Shrug02 (talk) 20:04, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any more support for a redirect as ATD?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 19:12, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of basic settlement units in Brno

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This recently created list fails WP:NOTDIRECTORY. It is an extremely detailed breakdown for specific purposes in a professional sphere, which goes beyond the scope of an encyclopedia. Other European metropolises do not have a list with such a breakdown (so Brno is very random in this context). Similar lists are not found on cswiki either. FromCzech (talk) 12:32, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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To be honest that's quite fair. I simply wanted to make a ranking of the basic settlement units by density and population since that's what I'm usually interested in, but if others agree for the deletion I am for it too. GreenWolfyVillager (talk) 13:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

comment I have to say this is largely incomprehensible without a map. Mangoe (talk) 13:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since there is already the article Administrative divisions of Brno would it simply be way better to move the article there? GreenWolfyVillager (talk) 17:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This does not solve the concerns I raised above. It doesn't matter if the list is stand-alone or not. FromCzech (talk) 06:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Orientls (talk) 07:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:21, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lists are usually by county, state or country, so this could be made into a list of places (or statistical or administrative units) in the South Moravian Region or there could be separate pages for each district, including Brno-City District. Peter James (talk) 13:09, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 19:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kenteman

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WP:BLP of a musician, not properly referenced as passing WP:NMUSIC.
As always, musicians are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and have to pass certain specific inclusion criteria referenced to reliable sources -- but the only attempt at a notability claim here, the confusingly-worded "His Royal Majesty Nene Sakite II, Konor of Manya Krobo - Ghana honours Kenteman and Queen Asabia Cropper" under an honours and awards header, is supported only by a reference that just says he was "acknowledged" alongside his sister for an award presented to her, at a festival that isn't prominent (or music-oriented) enough to pass WP:NMUSIC #8 in and of itself.
And the article is referenced entirely to sources in which he's a secondary tag-along in coverage about the sister, with absolutely no sources that are about Kenteman in his own right shown at all.
Further, this has already been sandboxed in draftspace, before being moved right back into mainspace by its creator with only minimal attempt at improvement, so just resandboxing it again would have to be discussed and would probably require move protection.
Nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to have a stronger notability claim than just existing, and better referencing for it than this. Bearcat (talk) 16:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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John Gourlay (soccer)

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Doesn't look notable, unless people can find offline significant coverage about him. Redirect to List of 1904 Summer Olympics medal winners#Football seems sensible, but worth having an AFD discussion in case anyone finds some coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 21:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of fascism

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POV fork, mainly based on one part of this article, its faliure in WW2. Slatersteven (talk) 11:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, what? It's a full article with seven different content sections. Only one of those sections is "Poor record in war". Also, why didn't you object to the spinoff when we were discussing this on the talk page before? Sunrise (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Err, that is because there was no consenus to fork this off, what there is a discussion about one paragraph (loss on war), which is you Vs many (so did not have any consensus). Slatersteven (talk) 11:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I originally proposed one paragraph, and edited it to address feedback over several rounds of discussion. In my reading of the discussion, I addressed all the concerns presented, after which most editors were neutral or generally supportive, except for one editor who believed it had too much weight. As a result, I declared my intention to create a spinoff where the paragraph could be included, and there were no objections.

As a result, over the past month I have been researching this topic in order to write a full spinoff article, in accordance with WP:Summary style and the established precedent on "Criticism" articles for ideologies (WP:CRITSP). The resulting article has three subsections derived from the main article, the one section we discussed before, and three entirely new sections written from imported content and my own research. But I suppose we can do an AfD? Sunrise (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TFD seems to generally object to it. And they never changed that stance. Slatersteven (talk) 11:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, hence my reference to "one editor" in my previous comment (out of 7, by my count?). Regardless, I undertook to address their concerns by offering an alternative solution, and they didn't reply (nor did anyone else) so I assumed it was acceptable. Sunrise (talk) 12:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment per WP:POVFORK There is currently no consensus whether a "Criticism of..." article is always a POV fork, we have Criticism of … articles for Criticism of socialism, Criticism of capitalism, Criticism of Marxism

Kowal2701 (talk) 11:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is also WP:CRITSP: For topics about a particular point of view – such as philosophies (Idealism, Naturalism, Existentialism), political outlooks (Capitalism, Marxism), or religion (Islam, Christianity, Atheism) – it will usually be appropriate to have a "Criticism" section or "Criticism of ..." subarticle. Sunrise (talk) 12:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True, but as pointed out above there was no consensus to create this, which came out of a decision about the war paragraph which was (explicitly) rejected for inclusion in the main article. Slatersteven (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As above - that is not my reading of the discussion (and you didn't make any objection yourself, even though you commented). Perhaps we can get an outside view on that? Regardless, there's no such thing as "no consensus to create" for an action that has been mentioned on talk with no subsequent objection. If your issue is about that single paragraph, then AFDing the entire subarticle would seem to be the wrong venue. Sunrise (talk) 12:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as article creator, I suppose. I don't spend much time at AfD, so I don't really know what arguments will be accepted on this point. But there is a long precedent for "Criticism" articles about ideologies (WP:CRITSP, as mentioned above), with a full list at Category:Criticisms by ideology.

Normally, I would follow the organization of WP:Summary style, making a new article when a subsection gets too large for the main article, with a summary being left behind. That is what I was doing, and it's the opposite of a POV fork. (The main article is currently desynced due to a revert, but that's a matter for talk.) Certainly there should no question over whether there's enough content for a dedicated article; for one, there's quite a few things that I haven't currently added. The fact that an editor previously raised weight concerns about some of this content being in the main article (which is reasonable, and indeed this article was created in response to that) is a further indication that a dedicated article is appropriate.

AFAICT, I think the nomination may have been based on an error? The claim that it's mainly based on one part of this article, its faliure in WW2 doesn't make sense, as I noted above. The nominator has acknowledged an error (diff) but I'm not really sure what it is. Sunrise (talk) 14:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Philosophy, Politics, and Economics. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to keep this. This is a matter of editorial judgment, since we all know that the sources exist. It's IMO not an unreasonable summary-style split, and since we have Criticism of democracy, Criticism of socialism, Criticism of Marxism, Criticism of monarchy, Criticism of libertarianism, etc., it is certainly not an unusual choice. If you thought that the content was better off in the main article, then Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers would be a better way to handle it than AFD, but I'd point out that with the main article already at nearly 14,000 words and over 300 inline citations, WP:SIZE is an issue. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:SUBPOV as an article whose subject is a point of view. "Criticism of fascism", as with criticism of most influential global ideologies, is notable enough for its own page. Photos of Japan (talk) 05:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 16:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep OKFORK, as well as important to not conflate the movements of anti-fascism and with a critique of the political ideology. Regards,--Goldsztajn (talk) 02:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zemun Stadium

AfDs for this article:

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Non-notable soccer stadium that fails both WP:GNG and WP:NARENA, which holds that athletic stadia are neither presumptively notable nor inherit the notability of any teams that play there. Significant coverage has not been demonstrated to exist, the article has been inadequately sourced for over fifteen years now (and was notability tagged for 12 years), its only current source is primary. Previous AfD went keep on the basis of several "It's notable," "It's big," and "Important games have been played there," among other illegitimate reasons. Ravenswing 09:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete zero notability established. Sole source is from the home club, their website also doesn't appear to exist anymore. Looking at the previous AfD (which you also nominated), all of the keep arguments completely violated WP:INHERIT and WP:NARENA (which some of them even used as a keep argument), and the closing admin looks to have simply done a vote count. Aydo h8^[contribs] 10:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to either Zemun#Sport or FK Zemun if no coverage is found. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would run afoul of WP:XY. Ravenswing 04:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To fix WP:XY, I would say redirect to Zemun#Sport if no coverage is found because the topic is broader than FK Zemun. --Habst (talk) 15:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No objection. Ravenswing 18:32, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would be absolutely astounded if this isn't notable. I'll try to do a source search in a bit. SportingFlyer T·C 19:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per previous AFD which contains numerous sources. Giant Snowman 20:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which of those sources do you claim provides SIGCOV to the subject? Ravenswing 05:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the sources at the previous AfD demonstrate notability, along with [30] [31] and books such as Srbija: znamenitosti i lepote (1965) SportingFlyer T·C 21:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The other issue is this stadium is known by several different names, making BEFORE searches more difficult. Recent coverage also includes [32] [33] SportingFlyer T·C 02:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Adding the sources identified here or in the previous AfD to the article would likely help garner consensus quicker.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 15:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cassie Petrey

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Mildly promotional biography of a music marketer who fails WP:NBIO, WP:GNG; moved to mainspace after being declined at AFC. She seems to have received some coverage for a past connection to Britney Spears, but her notability cannot be WP:INHERITED from Spears. The coverage of this connection is also tabloid coverage (Mirror, Daily Soap Dish, People), which is disallowed for establishing notability per WP:SBST. The remaining sources are limited to:

WP:ROUTINE coverage in WP:TRADES publication MusicRow ([34], [35], [36], [37], [38])
WP:PRIMARYSOURCE Q&A interviews ([39], [40], [41], [42], [43])
WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs ([44], [45])
Promotional material like coverage in Forbes of a Forbes-sponsored panel discussion ([46])

As for her 30 Under 30 listings ([47], [48]), there is no consensus that these are the kinds of awards that would make someone independently notable under WP:ANYBIO. (The Forbes 30 under 30 is "awarded" to 1,230 people each year across geographies and industries so is not a rare honor.) I didn't find any other qualifying coverage in my WP:BEFORE search. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Saiman Says

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The sources do not provide WP:SIGCOV, and the subject fails to meet WP:GNG. The sources include four YouTube videos and three blog articles, such as TOI Readers’ Blog and Talk Esports. I don’t think GNG is met here. GrabUp - Talk 15:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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@GrabUp: I have replaced three of the four YouTube videos with news articles. It will be helpful if you can let me know which ones are the blog articles. Pur 0 0 (talk) 17:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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National Library of Cameroon

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There is no "National Library of Cameroon". The current coordinates given are to the national museum. The national archives, which are the largest museum in the country, have their own seperate entry.-- NotCharizard ^🗨 15:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to National Archives of Cameroon which appears to be the case with the French article where Archives nationales du Cameroun talks about the volume it holds if I'm reading it correctly. Star Mississippi 03:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Smoothstack

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Post-PROD undeletion; article doesn't seem to meet WP:GNG. All coverage based on a single incident. As disclosed, I am an employee of the company. TimJohn67 (talk) 14:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 December 16. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Business, Companies, Technology, and United States of America. Skynxnex (talk) 16:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: Nominator has a clear paid COI with the subject. UtherSRG (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I'm not sure running a predatory company is the stuff of notability here. Could be seen as a form of PROMO to whitewash these issues? Regardless, I I can only find PR items, nothing helping notability. Oaktree b (talk) 17:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hafez Bashar al-Assad

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Redirect to Al-Assad family as WP:ATD. WP:NOTINHERITED. Never held a government office, non-notable child of a dictator. Of course there will be coverage in this context, but the child is not inherently notable. WP:SIGCOV is in the context of the child's comments about their parent, not about the child. Middling math accomplishments fail WP:DUE and are insignificant to establish notability. Sanctions in the context of being a tool of his father's regime. Longhornsg (talk) 07:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Mathematics, and Syria. Longhornsg (talk) 07:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. There is an article about the daughter of kim-jung un (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Ju-ae). Never held a government office, non-notable child of a dictator. Hafez's recent aquisition of a PhD in number theory seems significant enough to me. If deletion is chosen, then I also think a redirect to the family page seems best. 157.193.117.76 (talk) 10:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you think that article is not up to standard, please nominate it for deletion as well. Oaktree b (talk) 23:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Simply having a PhD and being related to a famous person does not not meet WP:GNG. Longhornsg (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep:The individual was expected to be the successor to Bashar al-Assad, having been designated as the future president. This anticipation has brought him significant media coverage from reputable news sources, as evidenced by the list of references provided, demonstrating that it meets the minimum requirement for WP:GNG.Instant History (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are a good number of sources attesting to his mathematical skill (he got an Honorable Mention at the IMO at age 15 - nothing to sneeze at!). Perhaps we could add his mathematical acheivements to the article. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... so I nominate keep. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Doesn't appear to have done much for notability, could be a brief mention in an article about the family or about his father. Oaktree b (talk) 23:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep sources show WP:GNG, in-depth articles. I know "other stuff exists", but Wikipedia has lists and categories of heirs who never succeeded, so that doesn't invalidate notability, sometimes it is the hook to the coverage itself. Just the other day, in DYK, was Kim Jong Un's daughter of whom not even the name is certain. I don't know enough about mathematics to comment on his notability in that field. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: While notability is not inherited, there are some subjects that are inherently notable because the media will cover such subjects. Children of heads of state are such subjects. Additionally, the article appears well sourced and some articles are in-depth on the subject itself. I cannot say for certain on all of the sources, as I do not speak or read Spanish or Arabic, and I would think there are a lot more RS out there in Arabic to further establish notability. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:39, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep history is important Yesyesmrcool (talk) 17:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, under possibility of punishment against me. First of all, he is NOT a child, despite several claims in this AFD. Second, he is the son of a powerful head of state, despite that his father has left Syria. Due to the far reaching arm of Syrian intelligence, I cannot state any negative information about al-Assad, not even deletion of his article. However, I do note that there are numerous reliable source citations about the subject of this article, which would suggest keeping it. ErrorCorrection1 (talk) 18:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep , historical preservation is important as per Yesyesmrcool. Theofunny (talk) 12:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, the subject is not notable other than being the son of a deposed dictator, usually articles like this are being made acknowledging the posibility of sucession, which in this case is not possible anymore (in contrast with Kim Ju-ae), and no, having mathematical acheivements and acquiring a PhD is not enough to reach WP:GNG and have notability by your own. So I nominate delete or redirect to Al-Assad family. Votbek (talk) 15:08, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Alluding to the existence of sources without citing any does not help establish the case for retention.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 14:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Little Fishes Preschool

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No evidence of notability, no obvious redirect target. Sources are routine coverage or not independent. Fram (talk) 14:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Florida. Fram (talk) 14:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Multiple new secondary WP:RS directly referencing the school over decades. Local newsapers as well as county & state government websites and reports ZebulonMorn (talk) 14:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You added things like [49] and [50] but I can't find anything about the Little Fishes Preschool on these pages? Fram (talk) 14:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please read carefully:

[51] Page 21 – Title:Little Fishes Preschool to begin registration

[52] Page 11 – Title:Community helpers week ZebulonMorn (talk) 17:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that you linked to other pages, it was rather hard to find these. You can't expect people to read a whole local newspaper to find what you intended. Both articles are routine local coverage, not the kind of thing that makes a school notable. Fram (talk) 17:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Command F on mac at least takes 2 seconds? ZebulonMorn (talk) 17:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Search on Chrome returns nothing here, and the internal search of the website returns "Unknown error occurred We apologize for the inconvenience. Click here to return to the library. Click here to report the problem." And none of this explains why you would link to page 4 if the article is on page 21. Fram (talk) 17:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The second source references Paul Terry visiting the school. Terry would later become notorious [53] [54] [55] [56] ZebulonMorn (talk) 17:51, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And did the school play any role at all in him becoming notorious? WP:NOTINHERITED. Fram (talk) 17:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason he's notorious, murdering children, is separate. The fact he has interacted with and had a history with children, relates heavily. Additionally, this tragic incident has gained notability in recent years with a more modern outlook and approach to police reform which has altered public perception of domestic violence by police. The association of the subject with the school/children is an interesting example of the complex nature of mental illness and violence, as well as this school and the broader educations system's inability to detect potential threats. ZebulonMorn (talk) 18:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, no connection at all, just like I thought. Fram (talk) 18:51, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So had he gone to the dry cleaners instead, we wouldn't note that in their article. That's a very thin string upon which to build an article. Had he shot up the school maybe you'd have something. This isn't helping. Oaktree b (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Preschools usually do not hold N/GNG universally outside a few prominent ones, and this one is standard and WP:MILL. Nate • (chatter) 17:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC
Delete Does not meet any standards for notability. All sourcing is primary self-published, inclusion in lists of accredited daycares (which, let's be honest...if we're using that then every single accredited daycare deserves an article, which is utterly bonkers), or small announcements in local newspapers (which does not meet the standard for WP:SIGCOV. The stuff about Terry's notability transferring to a daycare he once visited is almost a comically stereotypical case of WP:NOTINHERITED, again...do we do an article on every entity that had a cursory interaction with a notable person or event? It'd be like having an article on every place that has a "George Washington visited here" sign inside. If someone wanted to include this information in Terry's article, then maybe, but it does NOT mean it deserves an article on its own. nf utvol (talk) 20:12, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Strong failure of WP:MILL. Geschichte (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The school's website, then various listings, then an indeed post.... There just aren't enough sources to show notability. Having a police officer visit the school that later murders his family is a bit of a stretch to notability.... If he had gone to the bakery instead, we wouldn't note that in the bakery's article. Outside of this, there isn't anything to build an article with. Oaktree b (talk) 20:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Broden Kelly

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Article fails to demonstrate relevant reliable sources or meeting of WP:GNG as to why Broden Kelly is notable in his own right as opposed to being a member of Aunty Donna. At present the vast majority of the article is a repetition of information on the article for Aunty Donna itself, which highlights the lack of notability as an individual.

The limited information sourced about him himself outside of Aunty Donna looks to be extended comments from a pair of podcast appearances, those he has an employment relationship with (such as a football club) or from his own personal social media accounts, which fail to demonstrate the requirements of reliable, third-party sources to meet notability.

Article should be Redirected to the Aunty Donna page until such a time notability in his own right can be demonstrated. Rambling Rambler (talk) 14:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Artists, and Australia. Rambling Rambler (talk) 14:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a protest page with a made up term. Delete.

Boriswave

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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

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I have never heard this term used before. As another user observed this appears to have been referred to by a single writer for the Telegraph. I suspect the intent behind creating this article seems to be to create chatter so that it becomes a meme, which is subsequently used as a reason to have the page. John Smith's (talk) 13:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This term is widely used on Twitter. I've seen it like 20 times this year 213.147.110.205 (talk) 13:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think a term being used by 20 people on social media deserves its own article. John Smith's (talk) 13:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's in common circulation on twitter and other social media outlets.

And it's certainly not 20 people. The OP reference that they personally had seen it 20 times. There's no hard and fast statistical analysis on this - just like many cultural references.

I suspect there's political motivation to prevent this article as it criticises Boris Johnson and he has a large base of political supporters. Gp1v07 (talk) 14:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So far I'm the only person that's suggested the page be deleted. In contrast there's a sudden influx of unregistered users and people with few historical edits arguing to keep the page.

You've not exactly contributed much to Wikipedia, have you? John Smith's (talk) 14:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is Wikipedia a [omissis] measuring contest, or a place for open debate? 94.196.172.99 (talk) 15:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, it is a well sourced article and the terminology has clearly been used in more sources than the Telegraph, as has already been pointed out on the Talk page. To say otherwise is disingenuous and it seems you were more quick to call it a "clearly ridiculous" article than to actually check the sources. 148.252.144.37 (talk) 13:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As was pointed out on the talk page, there is already an article called Modern immigration to the United Kingdom and a section on immigration following the UK's departure from the EU and the Covid pandemic. It would make more sense to add a reference to "Boriswave" in that section if it's really that common, rather than create an entire article to duplicate the topic. John Smith's (talk) 13:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is already a reference in the ‘modern immigration to the U.K.’ article, and it links to the nominated page, where more high quality sources are available. I see no reason to delete considering the number of reliable and relevant citations. 2A01:CB06:9002:F604:C07F:821B:4642:E424 (talk) 17:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep — @John Smith's has assumed bad faith in this discussion.

Mass third-world immigration and the Conservative Party’s repeated choice not to reduce or end it (as they promised) are two of the major topics in contemporary British politics. They deserve their own article outside Modern immigration to the United Kingdom. Keeper of Albion (talk) 14:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So have a descriptive title rather than use something that is not common. If you asked the man on the street they wouldn't know what the "boriswave" is. Not least because the "wave" hasn't ended - net migration to the UK remains high. John Smith's (talk) 14:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but with the caveat that I would not be opposed to a name change. I think there are clearly two different issues here - the phenomenon of increased migration from non-EU countries to the UK after the 2019 elections seems to be noteworthy enough to deserve its own article in my opinion. On the other hand, there isn't really any reliable evidence that the term 'Boriswave' is in widespread in any mainstream media. I could only find one article in the Daily Telegraph. It's unfortunate that there is no generally accepted term for this phenomenon, but it isn't Wikipedia's job to coin one. Sides-Daren? (talk) 14:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:20, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - the phenomenon is worthy of coverage, and is reliably sourced. Elshad (talk) 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I can find a few reliable sources that use the term to describe the recent surge of migration to the UK: Unherd, The Critic, The Telegraph, Reaction. The issue seems to be that they're split between using "Boriswave", "Boris Wave" and "Boris-wave"... A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 14:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There was a qualitative change in immigration to the United Kingdom after Brexit, in countries of origin and the inflection point in numbers. Both the phenomenon and the name are supported by the sources. I see no need to merge into another article, Wikipedia is not limited by space, so we can go into detail in a dedicated article. cagliost (talk) 14:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is a term created by a right-wing twitter subculture, and nearly all of its uses outside of this twitter subculture have been in polemical articles by writers who are part of that subculture. This article contains no information that couldn't be folded into Modern immigration to the United Kingdom. And considering that the guy who created the term also created this article, or at least is implying that on twitter, I see some conflict of interest.Theodore Christopher (talk) 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no article on wikipedia that contains information that cannot be folded into another page. You can fold the information in a page about insulin into a page about something completely arbitrary to the topic, if you wanted. It doesn't make sense to do this though, because different articles have different focuses. Modern immigration page describes the overall and ongoing trend of modern immigration in the United Kingdom, whereas the Boriswave article in question deals with a description of the term and its context. I get a sense that you might be politically biased from your phrasing and this would itself imply a conflict of interest. Even if what you state is correct, why does this mean the term doesn't warrant its own page especially considering the context and references conveniently apportioned to the term just below (which would otherwise be much harder to find in a sea of references, in another page)? Jbeda.2000 (talk) 22:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete None of the sources focus on the term, only really mentioning the term as a passing, trivial reference so therefore it fails WP:SIGCOV. Even a basic search doesn't bring the term up in connection to what it purports to. I agree with Theodore above, anything of substance can easily be merged into the UK immigration article. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We're meant to take a user called "The C of E God Save the King!" seriously when discussing Conservative Party policies!? 81.158.176.237 (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- - IP @81.158.176.237:, may I suggest you please read WP:NPA? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    God Smite the King wouldn't really work in most cases. I rather enjoy that user name. Oaktree b (talk) 20:48, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, it is a well sourced article and a simple search on Twitter shows hundred of entries simply for the past week. The term is clearly in active use and frequently referenced. Arugia (talk) 15:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, Twitter is not a reliable source, and usage of a term does not make the term suitable for Wikipedia. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: "Boriswave is a term" - but Wikipedia is WP:NOTDICT, not a dictionary. Contrary to the assertions of some !voters above, the article is not strongly sourced: the sources are of variable quality, full of errors, and offer only passing mentions which briefly use the term (or variants of it) without discussing it. That is clear deletion territory. The substance of the article, such as it is, concerns Modern immigration to the United Kingdom which already exists as an article. There's basically nothing worth merging, either. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not all the sources are good, but enough of them are. cagliost (talk) 16:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment is this supposed to be an article about immigration to the UK in recent years since Brexit (which happens to be called a boriswave), or an article about a notable term (boriswave) which has been applied to recent immigration? If it's about recent immigration, then sources exist and it might be notable, but I'm dubious because immigration has been a continuous, perennial issue in the UK since the Romans turned up, so it's questionable whether the sources justify a new article specifically for recent immigration. On this basis I'm a maybe-weak-keep provided it's moved to a better title. But if it's about the term, it's definitely not notable, because no matter how prevalent a term is in Twitter, we need it to be recognised in longer-lasting, serious sources, which would make me a delete. Elemimele (talk) 16:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Elemimele: It seems to me to be a bit of a WP:COATRACK, which would then make it fall foul of being a WP:SYNTH article. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 16:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft Keep. The sources that support its use are of variable quality, but the way in which the pace and composition of immigration to the United Kingdom changed so dramatically post-Brexit, and the political controversy it has caused, may be worthy of a seperate article that goes into the phenomenon in depth. Regarding the views of an editor above that the term is a product of a social media subculture, I share this concern and think a name change might be worthwhile, but believe the article should stay at least for now. Holyisland (talk) 16:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge: to the "Modern immigration" page where the term is already used, seems like a decent option instead of deletion. Oaktree b (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded - I believe that User:Oaktree b's proposal of merging the article with the "Modern Immigration" page to flesh out where the term is already used seems like a sensible solution to this issue. BillyDee (talk) 17:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This term will probably come to be used for this immigration wave (I can think of no other word to use despite wanting to avoid such a word) and so wish to make clear that this AfD should not be used to prevent future articles titled so if it is nominated for deletion.

EPEAviator (talk) 18:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Modern immigration to the United Kingdom as per User:Oaktree b, there's way too much WP:SYNTH and WP:OR here, with at least three of the references in the lead alone[57][58][59] being to articles or primary sources about UK migration in general, which don't use any of the terms. Comment a twitter account (@PolitlcsUK) with 330k followers has drawn attention to this article's creation which may bring extra attention. Orange sticker (talk) 19:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The Boriswave is a statistically distinct phenomenon in the modern history of immigration into the UK, and as such deserves its own page. Benjji22212 (talk) 20:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Modern immigration to the United Kingdom, probably. However I feel the need to point out that in addition to the Sam Bidwell's piece for The Telegraph (already in the references) the term seems to be catching up in the blogosphere, with multiple examples over last few weeks I could find by googling. Slovborg (talk) 20:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I was originally merge, but feel people have made plenty of decent arguments here for keep. It also seems to be more in use than previously thought due to different ways of writing it. I suspect even if this article gets deleted it will be back in some form in a few years as the level of immigration into the UK over the past 4 years is completely unheard of in the history of the UK. Historians will want a way to refer to it, and it seems there's a catchy one gaining popularity. 2A02:C7C:7CCC:7A00:C862:50D2:90F7:AD5E (talk) 20:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I'd literally *never* heard of this before today. A Google search for "Boriswave" brings up absolutely nothing. Ninehundreddollarydoos (talk) 21:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep

What exactly is the articles existence detracting from? what confusion does it generate to exist, on its own, independent of other articles covering the same topic like the aforementioned modern immigration to the United Kingdom.

Provided the page is well referenced, and that there is proper disambiguation to cover similar terms like 'boris wave' or 'Boris-wave' and point in the direction of other pages, let it exist. It is after all a Wikipedia page primarily explaining what the 'boriswave' term means, which has been used in the mainstream media so it's not random.

It's not simply a replication of the other page because it contains information vital to understanding the term. It's also not possible to fold the information into another page without altering the focus and convenience of what is stated in the current 'boriswave' article; what you would be left with is a more obscure footnote and a decision between repeating previous information in the page to provide immediate context (which would create time inefficiency for users looking for those terms in different sections using ctrl+f, for example) or an inconveniently lacking summarisation of the term with at best a pointer back to the previously mentioned information. Jbeda.2000 (talk) 22:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I had been considering AFDing this myself as a WP:POVFORK of Modern immigration to the United Kingdom. I'm finding virtually nothing about this usage of "Boriswave" or "Boris wave" in reliable sources, and for the most part, the references in the article itself don't specifically discuss it either.Jay8g [V•T•E] 22:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Elshad. We don't delete pages just because one editor hasn't heard of the topic. Dāsānudāsa (talk) 09:33, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rat Race (video game)

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:GNG; only notability is its announcement and subsequent cancellation, with sources being mainly on these two details. MimirIsSmart (talk) 12:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:20, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've added some sources. Timur9008 (talk) 17:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The sources do not convince me it has notability as a standalone article. There seem to be some mentioned links in the previous AfD, but they are permanently dead - oops. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per the consensus and sources found in the first AFD. Not sure how hard the above looked but they're easily found, and some cover things beyond the simple announcement and cancellation, like it's poor reception prior to its cancellation. Only the MTV source appears to be dead, but it still existed at one point, and I even found a few new sources, so there's plenty present to write an article around.

There's enough to support an article here. Sergecross73 msg me 18:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The notability standard is much higher for cancelled games, but there is reliable sourcing as above and in the earlier AfD about the gameplay details, development, and even some early feedback from outlets that they weren't getting good vibes from the game. This deserves to be kept. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Czyszczon

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Semi-professional footballer who mostly spent his career in the reserve team. The only secondary source I found is Raciborz, a brief mention in transfer announcement, but not enough to merit a standalone article of himself. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Poland. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Nothing at de.wiki. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 21:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete. No pl wiki interwiki is a red flag. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Old Grandma Hardcore

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No real establishment of notability. The sources provided are: a blog site, the MTV homepage, a BusinessWeek article about her gaming career which seemed quite trivial, and a forum post-esque story pointing back to the aforementioned blog site. Been notability tagged since 2012. I should also add, I suggest not looking up her nickname lest you find links to 'the Hub'. Aydo h8^[contribs] 10:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Video games, and United States of America. Aydo h8^[contribs] 10:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Internet, and Ohio. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Some coverage in Fox and CBS News [60], [61], Endgadget [62]... The name does bring up porn links, but we can still find some things about this granny. Oaktree b (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I am not convinced there is enough WP:SIGCOV for her to pass WP:NPERSON. There is an article on Igromania, but mostly an interview (primary source). Otherwise, she is largely mentioned in short anecdotes. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep With the additional sources found by Jovanmilic97, I change my !vote to a keep. It's clear that NPERSON is passed at this point. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Significant coverage in NBC News [63], Der Spiegel [64], The Columbus Dispatch [65], The Spokesman-Review [66], cz:Aktuálně.cz [67], has some brief commentary in The Village Voice [68]. Meets WP:GNG/WP:NBIO. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 11:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to evaluate whether they are solely known for being an older person playing games, which might be better to merge somewhere. The name and blog appear to be run by her grandson and how long did the MTV G-Hole segment run, not to discredit her part. IgelRM (talk) 11:39, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There's a consensus to keep, but some input from community and the other !votes will appreciated regarding the comments by IgelRM. Another round of discussion can't hurt.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 11:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Laurence James Ludovici

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PROD was contested. Subject fails WP:NAUTHOR and WP:GNG. The bulk of the article is just an unsourced list of his non-notable works. The article has had a notability tag for almost 9 years with no additions to support the subjects notability. cyberdog958^Talk 07:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Gscholar brings up two papers this person wrote, but I'm not sure that's enough for an academic notability pass. I don't see any reviews of this person's other books either. Oaktree b (talk) 23:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, have added further information and references - satisfies WP:NAUTHOR. Dan arndt (talk) 08:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that he meets WP:NAUTHOR. You added references that the subject wrote, but none of it is about the subject himself. There is no evidence that he is widely regarded or cited by peers, originated a new concept, authored a body of work that itself is notable, or created a work that has been regarded as significant. cyberdog958^Talk 15:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, as the author of the first biography on Alexander Fleming, which received significant international attention at the time of its publication. I would have to disagree with your view. Dan arndt (talk) 02:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Would like to see more input from the community on the recent edits.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 11:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The several archived reviews of the biography of Fleming in the article show that that book is notable. I picked one other book at random to search at the British Newspaper Archive and immediately found this review. I won't bother looking for more, since this author clearly meets the GNG, but I suspect many more sources exist. Toadspike [Talk] 12:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sophie Moleta

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Doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG. I found this article because Moleta redirects here and I wanted to determine whether it should be a disambiguation or if Moleta (kgosi) should be the main subject. Searching suggests this is a run-of-the-mill musician. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep -- there are four sources fully cited in this article talking about her. They appear to be reliable, secondary, and independent sources; the two I've managed to access myself provide significant coverage and I assume the others do as well, particularly the news article in The West Australian with her name in it. That's three GNG-qualifying sources right there. Quoting, GNG is "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." -- just because the sources in the article were not linked does not mean they do not exist. Whether a person seems "run-of-the-mill" is irrelevant as long as they pass GNG; and if you read the news articles which were cited in the article at the time of the nomination she does have a somewhat interesting style.

I would make this a strong keep if I could track down the URL for the West Australian article, but I can't currently. Probably searches are failing because the news source does not keep archives from 2001. Mrfoogles (talk) 07:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relatedly I think it will likely need to be a disambiguation page -- the kgosi while arguably more historically significant is likely much more obscure. Mrfoogles (talk) 07:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Ref 2 is significant (partially interview based but with more than sufficient additional coverage); ref 4 is the same author in the same source a couple of months later with a cut down para about a live appearance, so I don't give that particular weight. There's basically a paragraph of review included at De Morgen[69] (the article covers releases from multiple bands/muso )- it looks like this is the same as ref 3 since it's the only mention of her in the archives. Ref 2 (GTranslated) suggests that she has had more success in France than elsewhere, however she has hardly any appearances on French sites currently. The West Australian smells like an interview and/or a festival appearance (Kulcha was WA's multicultural arts body), but would need someone with access to the archive to check. I can't see any other reviews around for her albums including via sampling archive snapshots of her website. In the absence of additional reviews -- particularly for her other work -- I think that a case can be made that her album Dive weakly meets WP:NALBUM (the Liberation and De Morgen articles, plus two of its songs were in the soundtrack for Pretty Things (2001 film)), that her albums other than Dive are clearly non-notable, and that she does not meet WP:NMUSICIAN. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 05:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Ashampoo Burning Studio

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Unremarkable software, mostly seems liked an advert UKWikiGuy (talk) 11:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Definitely fails WP:GNG in its current form.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gaël Campan

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Mostly primary references. Not enough significant references to meet the notability criteria. - The9Man ^Talk 10:53, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Alexious Kuen Long Lee

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Not enough coverage or significance to establish notability. Fails WP:GNG - The9Man ^Talk 10:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Thank you for your feedback. I suggest renaming the article to "Alexious Lee" (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL), as this name yields several news sources and coverage that could establish notability. Sunbq (talk) 15:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sunbq Please provide the references here or add to the article so that others can review and discuss them. - The9Man ^Talk 18:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comte Samitier

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I've been unable to confirm the existence of this alleged title. Of the cited sources I can only access two but those two don't check out, and I see no reason to suppose that the other two are any different. This author has produced other articles on the same family, none of which can be verified either (House of Samitier, Barón de Saint-Boissec, Draft:Carlos Samitier, Draft:Barony of Highmere) - presumably a genealogical fantasy / outright hoax. Their articles on the same family have been repeatedly deleted on Spanish Wikipedia. Ingratis (talk) 10:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I am also nominating the following related pages as above:[reply]

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Speedy delete. Hoax. Delete the files and drafts as well and globally block the creator. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pump Aid

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An article based on 2 sources. There's 9 google news hits but on closer inspection most of these are not WP:SIGCOV that would meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 05:50, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep several citations with non-trivial coverage referenced within the article, including press and academic journals. This WP:NONPROFIT has provided water to c. 1.2 million people. I see no issues with the subject meeting WP:GNG. ResonantDis_tortion 23:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 06:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with ResonantDistortion's logic Czarking0 (talk) 15:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Some of the sources are marginal/local (e.g., Wigan Today, BBC Radio 4 appeal) but the Guardian, New Scientist, and Daily Telegraph articles seem sufficient to establish GNG. Oblivy (talk) 06:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of international cricket centuries at the Gabba

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WP:NOTSTATS. No evidence that this is a notable list topic. While it is verifiable, there are very few sources who pay attention to which stadiums have hosted which centuries, normally the interest is in which player/team made centuries, not where. See also these related AfDs: 1, 2, 3, 4 Fram (talk) 09:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as per WP:NOTSTATS and existing consensus that these lists are not notable. LibStar (talk) 10:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete As per nom
Shrug02 (talk) 00:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:NOTSTATS WP:NOTMIRROR. Easily found on ESPNCricinfo statsguru. Ajf773 (talk) 08:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Kīngitanga election

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Doesn't meet the standard for WP:NEVENT/WP:NOTNEWS. All relevant sources are primary and I cannot find secondary sources on this specific event. No opposition to a merge/redirect although I'm not sure which article would be suitable as the target. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Olfactophilia

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Non-notable term and essay-like. Found no reliable sources online (use incognito if you're gonna search this up. I was gonna draftify this but it was already draftified, before it being recreated without much improvement so here we are... '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 07:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Non-notable topic, which doesn't even warrant a standalone article. Page is also poorly formatted, and would need to be significantly improved if kept. CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: ESSAY... We don't post high school essays here. This reads as an extended dicdef. I wouldn't even bother drafting, this is a high school paper. Oaktree b (talk) 21:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dexter Construction

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Lacks notability --Altenmann >talk 07:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fail to meet WP:GNG. This news article only makes a brief reference. Other articles available online are mostly social media and user generated content. WP:ORGSIG. QEnigma (talk) 10:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete Fail to meet WP:GNG.--Tristancr (talk) 14:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Brief mentions and routine announcements do not meet the criteria of WP:ORGCRIT. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sanjay Passi

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I don't see any significant coverage. Likely doesn't pass WP:GNG. LKBT (talk) 05:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: GNG is definitely met. Even though a lot of his fame comes from his wife, who's an internet sensation for her luxury lifestyle and appearance on a popular reality show and Netflix series, he's made a name for himself too. WP:SIGCOV have been identified from sources like Economic Times, Motor India Online india.com, DNAIndia, Hauterfly, Times Now, Hindustan Times.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 15:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This nominator appears to be a WP:SPA, unfamiliar to criteria's. Initiated a new AfD for Shalini Passi just days after the previous AfD was closed, reopening the discussion only 4 days later. The user's Afd history reflects a pattern of similar behaviour.— MimsMENTOR ^talk 15:27, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vertical penetration

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I don't find any sources for this use of the title term. Dicklyon (talk) 04:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - this looks like something the (all but SPA) creator made up one day. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:43, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - WP:NOTGUIDE this one uses aircraft to explain it, but online this term can also refer to specifics of high rise building construction. Or any number of other uses. — Maile (talk) 14:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Principal Snyder

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This Buffy character doesn't meet WP:FICTION or WP:GNG, there is no SIGCOV of him. Everything about the character is all in universe information, to make it worse, it only sites one unreliable source. Merge or Redirect to List of Buffy the Vampire Slayer characters. Toby2023 (talk) 03:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep BEFORE not articulated, please search Google Scholar with the additional keyword Slayage. I see plenty peer reviewed independent RS on a cursory search which can be used to improve the article. Jclemens (talk) 06:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (or merge) to LoC. Fails WP:NOT#PLOT and is just a supporting character. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:58, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A supporting character does not mean that they are not notable. There are some supporting characters with GAs DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 17:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect for failing WP:NOT#PLOT and WP:SIGCOV. Jontesta (talk) 14:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you do a search, or are you basing things on the current state of the article? Because if you did a search and found nothing, I'd like to help you improve your skills. Jclemens (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I agree that BEFORE was not articulated - I have checked online and also have seen SIGCOV that Jclemens has included.DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 15:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect or merge, per Sgeureka. What few sources provide only trivial mentions or WP:PLOT, and this doesn't pass WP:GNG. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darel Chase (bishop)

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A non-notable clergy person. Sources that mention Chase are limited to WP:PRIMARYSOURCES (his personal website, a blog from a bishop in his church, his church's official website x2 x3 x4, x5, his church's international communion website, and corporate documents on the KY secretary of state's site); and an apparent WP:SPS WordPress blog. Several sources do not even mention Chase at all ([70], [71], [72], [73], [74], [75], [76], [77]); these are contributing to WP:SYNTH to draw connections about the subject not present in the sources. I found nothing qualifying in a WP:BEFORE search. Finally, let me address WP:BISHOPS since I am guessing it will come up. While AfD participants have debated the applicability of BISHOPS (and I have generally accepted it as a quasi-guideline since WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES align with it, even though it's not a P&G), this bishop does not even qualify under BISHOPS. The church he leads is a micro-denomination that is not part of the Anglican Communion or recognized by any of its member churches. Moreover, Chase is the pastor of an individual congregation, and bishops in this category are per CLERGYOUTCOMES not typically found notable by virtue of their office. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Christianity, and Kentucky. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Oh man, that's an interesting character. I'm seeing a remarkably marginal case for notability here, but not enough for me to !vote one way or the other. Dclemens1971, do you mind pinging me at my talk page if I don't get back to this by next weekend? I would like to contribute to this discussion, but it looks like too deep a rabbit hole for this workweek. ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pbritti I will try to remember! Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely an interesting character, I'd say. He does definitely have a marginal case of notability, so I'll vote for it to be kept. And, isn't it a bit biased to call it a micro-denomination? It is a Christian denomination nonetheless, regardless of its size. It is also quite clear that he is not within the Anglican Communion. Is this a publishing house for authorized religions, or an encyclopedia? - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's completely unbiased and reasonable to call it a "micro-denomination". Its own website parish directory lists just four churches. While another part of its website claims 43 churches (scroll down), there's no validation of this. Chase's own diocese appears to have just three churches. Two other dioceses (Diocese of St. Ignatius Loyola Diocese of the North-East appear to have just one church each, and a fourth (Diocese of Pelican Bay) has no website with information. And WP:BISHOPS and WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES, to the extent they are relied upon, specify "Anglican Communion" -- while I might prefer a different dividing line, I didn't make that up. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DELOSYS

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Declined G11. Mildly promotional article on a Slovak fire-control system. Article only includes one source, which appears to be primary, and reliable sources are clearly lacking. No evidence that this warrants a standalone article. CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:39, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Konštrukta – Defence, the producer of this system, as an AtD. Agree that it doesn't warrant a standalone article. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Vintage Real Estate

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NCORP. Previously speedy deleted. Recreated by WP:SPA. Imcdc Contact 02:21, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Fred Sands: as an ATD. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Fred Sands (with the history preserved under the redirect), where the subject is already mentioned, per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion.
A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 08:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to target listed above. Would recommend protecting the title or we will be right back here in a few months. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This was recreated in 2009 immediately after the previous AfD. I don't think we'll be back where we started. If it's recreated, it can just be reverter back to a redirect. If an editor repeatedly tries to recreate this, then semi or ECP might be appropirate. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given the edit history, I would say the opposite, but hope I'm proven wrong. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete per G8 by BusterD. (non-admin closure)‎ Shellwood (talk) 12:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SMART Commute Fleet (OMSI 2)

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Current article content is a WP:NOT violation. OMSI 2 (deleted as article by WP:PROD and then deleted as redirect by RfD) appears to be a video game where you can pretend to be a bus driver, [78], from my WP:BEFORE search the game doesn't meet WP:GNG. This article is about a specific bus fleet within the game so is WP:CRUFT and I also can't find a WP:GNG pass for it, even if it were to be re-written in an article manner. MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 01:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: It would definitely seem very difficult for a bus fleet contained within a video game established to be non-notable to somehow attain its own independent notability. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this ends up falling under at least one speedy deletion criterion, though I'm not going any further than that for the moment. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete, speedy G8 (dependent on OMSI 2, which was AFD'd to that deleted redirect, as a note) per nom. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Negative keyword

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Poorly sourced article that fails WP:GNG. Encoded Talk 💬 15:10, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Seems notable enough to me. Documentation from Microsoft [79] and Apple [80] can be added to the references. The blog post reference can be removed. That makes room for others: [81] [82] [83].

Book references are also forthcoming: [84] [85] [86] [87]

The article is crap now, but it seems like it can be improved and the phrase is notable and common. -- mikeblas (talk) 17:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Keyword research as an AtD. I am unconvinced by these sources. The Microsoft and Apple sources are how-to guides for using keywords with MS/Apple products. The blog posts are not reliable sources. The first two books cited above are published by Wiley but each one (and the third book) devotes less than a page to "negative keywords." The fourth book reference is from Lulu and is thus not reliable as an WP:SPS. All told, these brief references aren't really WP:SIGCOV, and per WP:NOPAGE the subject matter can be covered encyclopedically and appropriately with reliable sources at the parent topic. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:23, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yin-yang-style baguazhang

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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 00:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Revirvlkodlaku, what did you think of the existing sources? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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@Liz, I'm not sure what there is to think. There are two hyperlinks, both of which are of Chinese text, and the rest are books. It's not clear to me how anyone can easily verify the content, but more importantly, this still seems like a rather small and obscure school of martial arts, and I don't think it warrants its own article. I think the topic should perhaps be redirected to Baguazhang. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 09:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Ai, Hu 艾虎 (2013). "田氏阴阳八卦掌探源及发展" [The Origin and Development of Tian's Yin-Yang Baguazhang]. 中华武术 [Chinese Martial Arts] (in Chinese).
  The article notes: "阴阳八卦掌，明末清初时，早在四川峨嵋山与青城山一带，碧云、静云两位道长所传。由田氏远祖田如銨始习阴阳八卦掌。在反清复明特殊的历史背景，阴阳八卦掌只在田氏族中秘密传承。传承序为鹏、利、富、海、山、回、克、子、金、川。"
  From Google Translate: "Yin-Yang Bagua Palm was passed down by Taoist priests Biyun and Jingyun in the Emei Mountain and Qingcheng Mountain area of Sichuan in the late Ming and early Qing dynasties. Tian Ruquan, the distant ancestor of the Tian family, began to practice Yin-Yang Bagua Palm. In the special historical background of the anti-Qing and restoration of the Ming Dynasty, Yin-Yang Bagua Palm was only secretly passed down in the Tian family. The order of inheritance is Peng, Li, Fu, Hai, Shan, Hui, Ke, Zi, Jin, and Chuan."
  The article notes: "为弘扬中华武术，田迴先生于上世纪60年代将祖传阴阳八卦掌始传外姓，1990年9月田迴所著《阴阳八卦掌·蟒形掌》一书由人民体育出版社出版，并列为中国武术协会审定的《中国武术文库》“拳械部”所属的“拳术类”，后又作为经典，被选录入《中国武术百科全书》和《中国武术拳械录》。"
  From Google Translate: "In order to promote Chinese martial arts, Mr. Tian Hui passed down the ancestral Yin-Yang Baguazhang to foreign surnames in the 1960s. In September 1990, Tian Hui's book "Yin-Yang Baguazhang·Python-Shaped Palm" was published by People's Sports Publishing House and listed as The "Boxing Category" belonging to the "Boxing Department" of the "Chinese Martial Arts Library" approved by the Chinese Wushu Association was later selected as a classic and included in the "Chinese Martial Arts Encyclopedia" and "Chinese Martial Arts Boxing and Weapons Record"." The book from Tian Hui:
  - Tian, Hui 田迴 (1995). 陰陽八卦掌 : 蟒形掌 [Yin Yang Baguazhang: Python-Shaped Palm] (in Chinese). People's Sports Publishing House [zh]. ISBN 978-7-5009-0508-0. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
2. 天津通志: 体育志 [Tianjin General History: Sports History] (in Chinese). Tianjin: Tianjin Academy of Social Sciences Press 天津社会科学院出版社. 1994. p. 71. ISBN 978-7-8056-3498-2. Retrieved 2024-12-02 – via Google Books.
  The book notes: "芦忠仁(正文)近年献艺整理出版了《阴阳八盘掌》一书。阴阳八盘掌最显著的特点是,它的走转行动毫不停息,手法腿法步法身法变化多端,姿势时正时斜,时转时翻,时起时伏,并且各个动作组织严密,技法纵横游击,左右盘旋,大有冲锋陷阵威力。演练时,给人以强烈的艺术感和实战感。其器械套路较多,这里只记“八盘刀”、“八第一篇传统体育"
  From Google Translate: "In recent years, Lu Zhongren (text) compiled and published the book "Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang". The most striking feature of Yin Yang Ba Pan Palm is that it moves around without stopping, its hand, leg, footwork and body movements are ever-changing, its postures are upright and diagonal, turning and turning, rising and falling, and each movement is tightly organized. , the technique is vertical and horizontal guerrilla, circling left and right, and has great charging power. During the drill, it gives people a strong sense of art and practicality. There are many equipment routines, here we only remember the "Ba Pan Knife", "Eight Pan Knife" and "Eight Pan Knife". The first traditional sports"
  The book notes: "阴阳八盘掌在清代也称“阴阳八卦掌”。此拳强调“八盘” (指人体的八个部位)的锻炼。因传授的人不同而变得多种多样。但在董海川以后,尹福和程廷华传授是主流。李振清前期弟子萧海波( 1863——1954 ) ,将此拳从民间传入清朝王府。萧的传人芦忠仁在津门潜心钻研,并向下传续了此拳,另有人称“醉鬼张三”的张长祯,与萧交往很密切,对萧述及所学的“内八卦'乾字门'拳法” (即此拳一支)"
  From Google Translate: "Yin-Yang Baguazhang was also called "Yin-Yang Baguazhang" in the Qing Dynasty. This boxing emphasizes the exercise of "eight pans" (referring to the eight parts of the human body). It varies depending on who teaches it. But after Dong Haichuan, Professors Yin Fu and Cheng Tinghua became the mainstream. Xiao Haibo (1863-1954), a former disciple of Li Zhenqing, introduced this boxing from the people to the royal family of the Qing Dynasty. Lu Zhongren, Xiao's descendant, devoted himself to studying in Jinmen and passed on this boxing to the next generation. Zhang Changzhen, also known as "Drunkard Zhang San", had a close relationship with Xiao and told Xiao about the "Nei Bagua" Qianzi he had learned. "Men'quanfa" (that is, this fist)."
3. Liu, Jun-xiang 刘峻骧 (1996). 东方人体文化 [Oriental Human Body Culture] (in Chinese). Shanghai: Shanghai Literature & Art Publishing House [zh]. pp. 107, 109, 115. ISBN 978-7-5321-1488-7. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The book notes: "《阴阳八卦掌》则以蟒形学为首,顺序是按后天八卦图的排列,分别狮形掌、虎形掌、熊形掌、蛇形掌、马形掌、猴形掌、鹏形掌等。但不管哪一派,都讲八方、八位、八掌型。其掌型分别为仰,俯,竖、抱、劈、撩、穿、挑。"
4. Hao, Xinlian 郝心莲 (1998). 中国武术百科全书 [Encyclopedia of Chinese Martial Arts] (in Chinese). Beijing: Encyclopedia of China Publishing House. p. 518. ISBN 978-7-5000-6087-1. Retrieved 2024-12-02.
  The article notes: "《阴阳八卦掌》《中华武术文库·拳械部·拳术类》之一。田廻著。中国武术协会审定。 1990 年 9 月人民体育出版社出版。全书共分上下两篇, 8 册。上篇总论,主要介绍了阴阳八卦掌的源流、内容、特点、练习步骤、阴阳论等;下篇讲述蟒形掌等一至八掌的掌势套路练法和技击作用。第 1 册蟒形掌,第 2 ~ 8 册依次为狮形掌、虎形掌、熊形掌、蛇形掌、马形掌、猴形掌、鹏形掌。... 它与董海川所传八卦掌不同,实为八卦掌另一流派。该书材料翔实,图文并茂,文字简练,通俗易懂,便于自学,利于查阅。"
  From Google Translate: "The Yin-Yang Bagua Palm is based on the python form, and the order is arranged according to the post-natal Bagua diagram, including lion-shaped palm, tiger-shaped palm, bear-shaped palm, snake-shaped palm, horse-shaped palm, monkey-shaped palm, roc-shaped palm, etc. But no matter which school it is, they all talk about eight directions, eight positions, and eight palm forms. The palm forms are upward, downward, vertical, hugging, chopping, lifting, piercing, and picking."
5. Ren, Zhicheng 任致诚 (2001). 阴阳八盘掌 [Yin Yang Ba Pan Palm]. Jiaolong Library Ancient Boxing Manual Series 矫龙文库古拳谱丛书 (in Chinese). Vol. 2. Shanxi: Shanxi Science and Technology Press [zh]. Retrieved 2024-12-02 – via Google Books.
6. Tian, Keyan 田克延 (2005). "阴阳八卦掌基础套路八卦阴阳鱼" [Yin-Yang Bagua Palm Basic Routine: Bagua Yin-Yang Fish]. 中华武术 [Chinese Martial Arts] (in Chinese). No. 9. pp. 54–57. Retrieved 2024-12-02 – via CQVIP [zh].
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Yin-yang-style baguazhang (simplified Chinese: 阴阳八卦掌; traditional Chinese: 陰陽八卦掌) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 11:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those all seem to show that the "Yin Yang Ba Pan Palm" may be notable, the subject of the article doesn't inherit notability just because one of their forms has been mentioned widely. JeffUK 12:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Palm" here is a Google Translate error for "zhang", and according to source 2 above, yin-yang baguazhang 八卦掌 seems to be a synonym for yin-yang bapanzhang 八盘掌. ('阴阳八盘掌在清代也称“阴阳八卦掌”'). —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification! JeffUK 14:48, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It would be nice to get a second opinion on these recently discovered sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DELETE The Chinese sources appear to be Chinese State revisionist propaganda to support some minor apparatchik's region, which is a very common practice in that country. Using Google translate to generate article topics ? What next ? ChatGPT ? Really !!! Arcot Shankar (talk) 07:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]
- This account was created a little over three hours before participating in this AfD. I used Google Translate to generate the quote translations here as manually translating them would be too time consuming. Google Translate was not used to generate the text of the article. Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 332#RfC: China Daily was closed as (bolding added for emphasis):
  In this RfC, the community assesses the China Daily. The discussion below contains a lot of detail and nuance that doesn't lend itself to a pithy summary and, when future editors are making a tricky decision about the use of this source, they are encouraged to read the debate in full. There is much disagreement, and I am confident that if there were better sources for China, then the China Daily would be deprecated entirely; but a narrow majority of the community, just about amounting to a rough consensus, feels that there are so few good sources for China that it's needful for us to lower our bar. The community concludes that the China Daily may be used, cautiously and on the basis of good editorial judgment, as a source for the position of the Chinese authorities and the Chinese Communist Party; as a source for the position of the China Daily itself; as a source for facts about non-political events in mainland China, while noting that (a) the China Daily's interpretation of those facts is likely to contain political spin, and (b) the fact that the China Daily doesn't report something doesn't mean it didn't happen; and, with great caution, as a supplementary source for facts about political events of mainland China (supplementary meaning that the China Daily shouldn't normally be the sole source for these things). Editors agree that when using this source, context matters a great deal and the facts should be separated from the China Daily's view about those facts. It would be best practice to use plenty of in-text attribution as well as inline references when sourcing content to the China Daily.
  I consider this to be a good guideline to follow for other state-affiliated sources. The martial art Baguazhang and this style of Baguazhang are not political topics so I consider these sources to be sufficiently reliable. Cunard (talk) 10:18, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

REMARK The issue is not the sources, the issue is of Notability as per the deletion proposer. I'm a martial arts practitioner myself, so it is true that the martial art (Wushu) Baguazhang technique is notable (the final climax fight in Jet Li's The One), all the other so-called "family" variations are just schools of a particular not-notable long dead teacher being cashed in by his children and relatives. In reality they are all variations on the 8 animal techniques. So you have Yin-Baguazhang by Master"A", Yang-Baguazhang by Master "B" and then Yin-Yang Baguazhang by this master. All completely not notable and essentially spam pages to promote a particular school running somewhere. Arcot Shankar (talk) 13:18, 15 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still hoping to get some sort of consensus on the value of the additional sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El Beeblerino ^{if you're not into the whole brevity thing} 01:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Cunard has shown that this topic clearly meets the GNG. I highly doubt that all of these sources from apparently reputable scholarly publishers across various provinces of China are somehow paid promotional pieces created to puff up some local official. Toadspike [Talk] 08:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources found by Cunard. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Beint

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I don't see any significant coverage. Likely doesn't pass WP:NACTOR due to insignificant roles in films which are also difficult to verify due to the lack of reliable sources. Frost 15:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and England. Shellwood (talk) 15:50, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Beint does meet WP:NACTOR, his role as Duke Frederick in As You Like It (1974) in Broadway is notable, first billed [88][89]. He also has a biography in the Cast Section in the Playbill website [90]. He also appeared in over 100 notable films and television programs, which there are definitely more significant roles he played out there. MoviesandTelevisionFan (talk) 05:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per the nomination. Everyone who appeared in a Broadway show is not thereby notable. This article lacks WP:RS citations and is fails WP:GNG criterion. I vote delete. Go4thProsper (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment His Broadway role was actually the main character in the Broadway play As You Like It (1974). [91]. Nobody said "Everyone who appeared in a Broadway show is notable". MoviesandTelevisionFan (talk) 01:58, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mojo Hand (talk) 01:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: As You Like It only ran for 8 performances on Broadway.[92] It toured elsewhere, but this is the only review I can find with Beint mentioned -- which is really not sigcov of him as an actor -- and there's hardly any appearances of his name in the GNews archive[93] (though this is obviously a far from complete repository, particularly of The Times). Even if something approaching sigcov of his AYLI role could be found, we'd likely still need additional sigcov for his other acting. His IMDB listing shows guest and short recurring TV roles, and what looks like minor movie roles. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 02:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]