Talk:Lyonesse

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Heerke ye men

The quote in the article ("Heerke ye men...") is fairly obviously pure invention in a pseudo-archaic style, with spellings distorted to give a superficial resemblance to Middle English. Unless some better source for it can be found than "an ancient book discovered in an old castle", it ought to be disposed of. 24.39.212.83 01:37, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I think the information on the City of Lions can easily be accomodated in this article. Madmedea 10:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. DuncanHill 11:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. --Cúchullain ^t/c 21:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've merged what little was worth saving from the other page, now redirected here. Enaidmawr (talk) 00:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needs reworking

This article is not really up to Wikipedia standards; there's a lot of shoddy research, and modern fictions are presented as if they were legends of great antiquity, or even as if they have a basis in fact. It's impossible to track down the sources of this research and evaluate them, however, because nothing is cited! RandomCritic 13:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "Kings of Lyonesse" section is particularly egregious in this regard. I have no idea where this information comes from, but it is clearly neither old nor reliable, let alone "derived from Welsh myth". One clear giveaway is the use of the very late English form "Tristram" together with Welsh epithets, as if it were a Welsh name. In fact, when Tristan appears in medieval Welsh stories (very briefly and obscurely, btw), it is as Drystan fab Tallwch, a clear allusion to a Pictish hero, Drust son of Talorc (which underscores, btw, the originally northern -- not Cornish -- connections of the Tristan character). Meliodas only appears in the late French Prose Tristan -- in earlier Tristan legends, various names, none looking like Tallwch or Talorc, appear, showing that Tristan got inserted in the continental romances without a fixed patronymic. The list of Kings of Lyonesse is a palpable fiction, and I should be surprised if it's over a century old, if that. If it's properly sourced and characterized it can stay -- presumably in the modern fiction section -- otherwise, it should really just be deleted. RandomCritic 13:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nigel Pennick's book Lost Lands and Sunken Cities, and the map of Lyonesse drawn by Agnes Strickland, plus the website [1] and a number of others of a similar nature devoted to genealogy. TharkunColl 15:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What in interesting website. You didn't notice something funny about a genealogy asserting the existence of a Juan of Castile and a Maria of Castile in the 6th century? You understand that there was no such place as the Kingdom of Castile in the 6th century, when Spain was controlled by Romans and Visigoths? That genealogy is a tissue of fabrications, completely worthless. RandomCritic 16:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We are talking legend here, not history. Do you not understand the difference? TharkunColl 17:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is the article doesn't distinguish between what comes from old legend, what comes from modern fiction, and what is true. This needs to be remedied.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Cúchullain and RandomCritic. The "Kings of Lyonesse" section is not encyclopedic, for all the reasons given above. As someone who is familiar with medieval Welsh literature and tradition, I'd like to know where the names "Tristram Fawr/Fychan" come from. The source is a single late Italian romance. I admit I've not read it, but am quite sure those are not the forms found there. So, what is their provenance? They're modern Welsh (Fawr is "(the) Great" by the way, not "the Elder" as given here...) and as pointed out above, Drystan is the name found in Middle Welsh. The articles on these supposed kings need looking at as well. Enaidmawr (talk) 01:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

193.97.35.253 (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC) Maybe it is only me but in Breizh there is a place called Leon know as the coast of legends, http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pays_de_L%C3%A9on this is not really far away from Broceliande... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.97.35.253 (talk) 14:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The author French Prose Tristan appears to place Léonois contiguous, by land, to Cornwall", not by confusion. This author was not french but normand. He lived in England and speak french, the language of England at this time. He knowed very well geography, better than certain contemporain people, and place in Brittany the Loonois near the Cornwall (Cornouaille, in french) as it is still today. For memory, the king of Cornwall in Britain (Kernew) and of Cornwall in Brittany (Kerneo) was the same at thise time. His name was Conomor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.66.73.147 (talk) 04:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that there is some plagiarism at work here. If you look at http://www.reference.com/browse/lyonesse you will notice many similarities, especially in the sections "Lyonesse in Arthurian Legend" and "Lyonesse in Celtic Mythology". I don't know which page the information originally came from, but there is definitely a problem that needs called to attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.13.208.124 (talk) 22:09, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This whole page is bunkum. All that we know of the subject could be covered in a couple of paragraphs. I would rather someone binned it if it is nor corrected. Simple minds can be further led astray thinking that this is an encyclopedia! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acorn897 (talk • contribs) 01:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Puzzled by british geography bit

Unsourced, amateurish and frankly moronic; anyone who has a vague inkling of the geography of the region would realize that not only are Cornwall and Dumnonia connected historically to Cornouaille and Domnonee (especially given their nearly identical spelling and pronunciation in their native language) but also that breton Leon is literally next to a Cornouaille. I cannot tell here whether the nationalist delusion is Cornish or English as both have an odd tendency to fit with this ahistorical attempt to write Brittany out of anything even vaguely related to the matter of Britain, one because they want cultural exclusivity over stories that were spread across the brythonic world, the other because post-Plantagenet efforts to use said Matter as part of royal propaganda to make the welsh and breton rulers submit has given the english the illusion that it was about them. Tristan and Isolde is clearly set somewhere between the 7th and the 10th century (likely leaning more towards the Viking period), not the end of the ice age, so why would it be a tiny patch of land that went underwater at the same time as Doggerland. 64.229.89.151 (talk) 22:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously the page would need a virtually full rewrite just to have a somewhat neutral description of the geographic situation and possibilities of the northern or armorican interpretations without being turned to shit by nonsense from cornish antiquarians 64.229.89.151 (talk) 23:01, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]