Talk:Paris (mythology)

Comments

Only someone who lacks the social ability to interpret normal human gestures would suggest that "that Paris is shown receiving the gift of life from the trio of Goddesses." It is completely obvious he is handing the apple to Aphrodite. Among many other reasons, the position of his arm (what kind of human would receive a gift from the goddesses with 1 outstretched arm while lounging on a rock???) and the fact that Hera is pissed off and has her back to him should clue one in. Exactly who champions this alternative interpretation? -- Sour pickle 17:14, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I couldn't google any such support. So I removed this passage:

An alternative interpretation is that Paris is shown receiving the gift of life from the trio of goddesses. This interpretation is supported by the contention that the three goddesses represent a single goddess in her three aspects of nymph, mother and crone and that to choose the most beautiful makes no sense in this context.

—James S. 09:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I've removed this sentence from the section on Paris in the Trojan War: "Since Homer was Greek, and naturally wanted the Trojans to seem cowardly and weak, he portrayed them as thus." Not only does the statement run contrary to what Homer actually does in the Iliad, where the Trojan characters...particularly Hector...appear quite often as great examples of virtue and bravery, it discusses something outside the scope of what Homer does at all. The passage the sentence is taken from discusses Paris killing Achilles, while the Iliad itself ends when Hector's funeral, prior to Achilles' death. Homer never portrays Paris killing Achilles at all. - Anon.

I have a similar issue with the constant identification of archery with Cowardice-this may have been a common Greek belief, I don't know, it would have to be verified. Certainly, poisoning arrows is less than manly, but but Homer doesn't seem to suggest archery in general is cowardly, given that he never suggest that Teucer, for example, is a coward for using arrows. It seems more likely to identify Paris as definately from Asia Minor (as archery was associated with the East, particularly Lydia, just to the South of Troy.) I don't want to delete it right off the bat, but if no one objects I would alter it. Matveiko 19:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Possible existence and Hittite records

This article really should mention the treaty between Hittite King Muwatalli II and one Alaksandu, king of Wilusa. This name is very likely cognate to the Greek Alexandros.

Helen's Visit to Oenone

I've always know it that it was Paris who begged to be taken to Oenone. Edith Hamilton's Mythology supports this. She writes:

"...Paris begged to be carried to Oenone, the nymph he had lived with on Mount Ida before the three godesses came to him. She had told him that she knew a magic drug to cure any ailment. They took him to her and he asked her for his life, but she refused." (From the Fall of Troy chapter)

I'm not sure if there is another source which says that Helen had involvement, like this article says. Does anyone have the source for that particular part? Has anyone heard this particular version of the story before? If not, I think a fix up of this section might be in order. Are there any objections to this? I will gladly volunteer to do the appropriate changes if everyone is in agreement. Thanks,--France3470 20:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ares Story

Is there another source at all for the story about Paris awarding Ares a crown at the end of the childhood section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.11.224 (talk) 11:40, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

"Paris gave the crown to Ares without hesitation; it was this apparent honesty in judgment that prompted the gods of Olympus to have Paris arbitrate the divine contest between Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena."

Hamilton makes no mention of this in Mythology. She merely says, "[Zeus] told [Hera, Aphrodite, and Pallas Athena] to go to Mount Ida, near Troy, where the young prince Paris, also called Alexandros, was keeping his father's sheep. He was an excellent judge of beauty, Zeus told them." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.11.224 (talk) 11:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

l000000 38.88.200.194 (talk) 13:52, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Unreferenced garbage

This article is complete unreferenced garbage with POV (mercilessly?)... Complete rewrite is called for. There are enough ancient sources. Meishern (talk) 16:48, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I very much agree: there is a truly disrespectful and flamboyant lack of sources in this article.

ICE77 (talk) 23:42, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Ambiguous entries

1. "it is speculated that in order to hit Achilles, he hit him from behind. Tradition holds that Paris killed Achilles later in the war. Many accounts attribute it to an arrow guided by Apollo."

Would it be possible to add some sources for these two accounts?

2. "The story was also made into a musical, Paris Prince of Troy, written by Jon English and David Mackay." What story? Let's be more specific with that entry.

ICE77 (talk) 00:28, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 March 2012

{to go under later treatments} Paris is portrayed as pretty face with no brains in the selection of Aphrodite in a section of the novel, Quicksilver by Stephanie Spinner (2005)

Danieltrue2009 (talk) 02:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 02:28, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

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Edit request on 18 May 2013

Please change:

Paris's second attempt at combat is equally faced: rather than engage the Greek hero Diomedes in melee combat, Paris wounds Diomedes with an arrow through the foot.

to

Paris's second attempt at combat is equally faced: rather than engage the Greek hero Diomedes in hand-to-hand combat, Paris wounds Diomedes with an arrow through the foot.

"Melee combat" in the sense of hand-to-hand fighting is from role-playing games. In the real world, "melee" is the incorrect word to use here as it cannot apply to single combat or any sort of organized fighting. 192.35.35.36 (talk) 05:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Done - Thanks! --ElHef (Meep?) 13:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Oenone

The last sentence in the 2nd paragraph of Paris's Childhood says "When Paris later left [Oenone] for Helen she told him that if he ever was wounded, he should come to her for she could heal any injury, even the most serious wounds." This is unsourced and jibes with Oenone's article and the 4th paragraph of Paris and the Trojan War, both of which say she refused to heal him later. Could someone remove this sentence? (Also, it would be nice if someone could specify that she was his first wife, not just a lover). 66.229.133.209 (talk) 02:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2018

In the 2018 series Troy: fall of a city, change the "will be" to "is," since Netflix has posted the series TexasResister64 (talk) 13:50, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done with thanks, NiciVampireHeart 14:26, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Discrepancies and lack of sources

1. "The herdsman, unable to use a weapon against the infant, left him exposed on Mount Ida".

Mount Ida can be the one in Crete or the one in Anatolia. The text should be clear which one it is and the link should point to the right place (there is a link for both mountains).

2. "Hecuba was also unable to kill the child, despite the urging of the priestess of Apollo, one Herophile".

Herophile points to Sibyl. However, it's not clear what Herophile means in this context since it appears to be the name of a Sybil so that "one" doesn't make sense.

3. What source uses the word "kallisti", mentions Zeus's refusal to arbitrate, the three goddesses initially bathing and then approaching Paris with his cattle?

Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, E. 3.2) and Hyginus (Fabulae 92) do not mention any of the above.

4. I would like to see original sources for the undressing of the goddesses as a wish of Paris or on their own accord.

5. "Hera offered ownership of all of Europe and Asia".

This is not true. Hera promises "kingdom over all men" (Pseudo-Apollodorus) and says "he would be king of all the lands and surpass everyone else in riches" (Hyginus).

6. "according to some accounts, she fell in love with Paris and left willingly".

What are the accounts/sources?

7. "Later, after slaying Hector and other heroes, Achilles dies by an arrow of Paris with Apollo's help".

What source says Paris got Apollo's help?

8. "Later in the war, after Philoctetes mortally wounds Paris, Helen makes her way to Mount Ida".

Is it Mount Ida in Crete or Anatolia? It should be clarified and the link updated to go to the right place (again, there is a link for both mountains).

9. "In another version, Paris himself, in great pain, visits Oenone to plead for healing but is refused and dies on the mountainside".

What is the version? Is it according to Quintus Smyrnaeus?

10. The article first states "When Paris later left her [Oenone] for Helen, she told him that if he ever was wounded, he should come to her, for she could heal any injury, even the most serious wound." Then the article says "Still bitter that Paris had spurned her for his birthright in the city and then forgotten her for Helen, Oenone refuses [to heal him]".

There seems to be a contradition or a change of mind on the side of Oenone.

ICE77 (talk) 23:53, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Name section

It says that his name is etymologically unrelated to France's capital, but it links to a tribe that lived in the area of France, whose first paragraph says the city of Paris derives its name from them. Something Doesn't add up 2600:4041:5974:4300:1522:769A:3EF:5B88 (talk) 19:33, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm just a historical enthusiast, but when I've been learning some Hittite and in the process I've come across Luwian vocabulary as well. To me "Parizitis" is obviously Luwian and a compound, in plain text at that. The same beginnings as with Priam, Pa-ri,then +ziti and +s. Essentially 'Brave'+'man'+nominative case. Similar names in meaning would be Andreas. Alternatively you could go a little more far fetched and go Pariyazitis, meaning something like 'man belonging to the foremost [people]/Elite'. You can check out the etymology under Priam there or these to figure it out yourself.

Imo the name Paris isn't even 'probably' luwian, it is luwian, you can clearly see it's not Greek or Hittite for example. Thus it's also as far from French Paris as you can get.

Just saying. Wonder why not any scholar has figured it out yet :D. Kennet Mattfolk (talk) 08:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

References

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Mythology

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wgronwald6 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Wgronwald6 (talk) 23:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: F24 Introduction to Mythology

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