Talk:Ostracism

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 11 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Steeldanguy788. Peer reviewers: MinervaNix, Floccinaucinihilipilification1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Dead Links

In the references section, the links to the Pereus Digital Library are incorrect and go to no document. For example,

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plut.+Cim.+17.1&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0017

goes to Ch 17 of Plutarch's Life of Cimon, but the article has

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0182:text=Cim.:chapter=17

Presumably PDL changed their url format at some point. I don't know how to edit the references section (it's just {reflist}), but presumably a more experienced Wikipedian can.128.220.159.7 (talk) 04:27, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Untitled

Which month for ostracism? January, according to

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/waymac/History%20A/A%20Term%202/3.%20%20Ancient%20Classical%20Greece/Greece_supplemental_notes.htm

user:djnjwd

Moved from main page->

To be added:

 Aristides and the ostracism anecdote 
 evidence for potential ostracism fraud (more) 

Barnaby dawson 13:56, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

also, one source said that these debates took place 40 times a year. another said every 10 days. I think every month may be wrong.

Reference for the cache of 190 ostraca against Themistocles, apparently the work of merely 14 hands: O. Broneer, Hesperia vii (1938), 228-243. Egbame (talk) 18:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

expansion of article

I Completely rewrote the entry below. Have I formatted ok? Flounderer 12:50, 1 October 2005 (UTC) You did fine. you're most probably an over achiever! keep up the good work/effort! "In modern parlance, to ostracize means to exclude someone from society or from a community, by not communicating with or even noticing them, similar to shunning. In a historical context, the term refers to ostracism, which was a legal process during the Athenian democratic period in the Ancient Greek city-state of Athens. Under this procedure, a single citizen was exiled for a ten-year period without other loss of rights. The word "ostracism" comes from the Greek word ostrakon (ὄστρακον) meaning "pottery fragment" or "potshard." Because papyrus was an expensive import from Egypt, the ancient Greeks used fragments of pottery for casual sketches, note-taking, and voting. In January of each year, the assembly took a vote on ostracism. If at the designated assembly meeting there were at least 6,000 ballots cast, whichever citizen received a simple majority of the votes was exiled for ten years, under which he could not return to Attica under penalty of death. The citizen lost the right to participate in politics by virtue of his absence, but his property was not confiscated, and he could appoint a manager to deal with his affairs and forward any income. The minimum figure of 6,000 ballots required has been interpreted by historians to mean that an attendance of 6,000 citizens at an assembly may have been a high number, rather than a regularly expected monthly number. Many well-known politicians of democracy were ostracized at one time or another, and periodically the democracy passed special laws recalling an ostracized person to deal with special circumstances. Aristides returned to the service of Athens in the recall during the Persian Wars and materially aided the state at the Battle of Salamis. Evidence exists that there was electoral fraud on occasion. Ostraca have been found with the same name on them, obviously written by the same person (all of them had the same misspelling). The analysis of this evidence is that the pre-written ostraca were designed to be handed out to random citizens to help oust a certain person. Notable individuals that were ostracized include Aristides (480s BC), Cimon (late 460s BC), and Themistocles (late 470s BC)."

I'm probably not formatting this correctly. Actually, I know I'm not. However, throughout the article the authors seem to say the exile period was 10 years (in the front bit) and then only one year (in the disuse section). Consistency is good. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.39.68.57 (talk • contribs) .

The exile was ten years — 1 person was chosen each year to go into exile. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 02:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

"Excile" vs "ostracism" — From reading other things, it seems to me that perhaps there was a different sanction, "excile", available through the democracy's laws? Excile being a permanent "don't come back" deal. If someone more knowlegeable could expand the "Excile" article with a paragraph or two on Exile in Ancient Greece, and post a "See also" here, I think people would be glad of the information. I would, anyway!

Tkbwik (talk) 10:41, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Death?

"The person nominated had ten days to leave the city — if he attempted to return, the penalty was death"

What is the source of this? I know for a fact that Aristotle says nothing about this.

I see it as it was meant to be used im assuming for the good of all mankind as in used in a political way ...i see it more in a common today version as clicks....less complex but used to controll who you choose to associate with or disassociate ...or as in churches i see common things like used in church memembership ...suggesting you to become a memember as a Church Family , it sounds so nice...Family...but when you decide for whatever reason to maybe just out of meeting others in the faith step out of that church so called Family into another Church so called Family you are Ostracised...so if its a thing where your not part of this family we disown you...sounds almost like a gang...a click...a cult. Same as with friends a friend can have a conflict of interst with another friends friend...next thing you know sides are being taken and stead of two conflicts you have group conflict then back in the Ostracism game again......

For me to define Ostracism id say its a head game that should have been life back in high school long ago...we can all agree to disagree but the problem is there is no love...love never fails ...so i think we have failed as mankind to communicate as well as do things with the right motives so we instead harbor feelings and instead of dealing with it we run....ok im done : P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.226.214.74 (talk) 16:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Australians

I removed this sentence:

A social anthropological example of ostracism is the pre-colonial Australian Aboriginal social expulsion of tribe members, sometimes even resulting in death.A social anthropological example of ostracism is the pre-colonial Australian Aboriginal social expulsion of tribe members, sometimes even resulting in death.

because first is unsourced, secondly assumes that there is an unified "aboriginal culture" and that doesn't seem the case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_culture) and last but not least has very little to do with the content of article. If someone have any serious source for the statement and feels it belong in the lead section, can undo my changes. --Dia^ (talk) 10:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Faulty link

In the list of ostracisms in ancient times (in the "Period of Operation" section), the hyper-link to Hipparchus takes you to the page of the Greek mathematician of the second century BC instead of to the page of the Hipparchus who was the relative of the tyrant Peisistratus. Could this please be fixed? This would involve creating a whole new page specifically for this person. Reference: Aristotle's Athenian Constitution (22.4) Orelius (talk) 12:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

---

I had never heard the word Ostracism before. First time I´ve saw it was in this wikepedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

So, I assume that the "Minimata Disease" would be a good referense under "Modern References"(?) OppnaOgonen

supposed ostracism of Kallixenos

A number of queries, here:

• What is the source for Kallixenos having been head of the Alcaemonid family? I can't find anything.
• What is the source of the date? All the sources I can find say that the Kallixenos ostraka date to 483 or 482 BC (e.g. Stamires & Vanderpool, 1950; Lewis, 1974)
• Calling it a "known ostracism" is a little bit strong. The most comprehensive discussion of Kallixenos I can find is Stamires & Vanderpool, who say "Whether or not this campaign resulted in his ostracism, it is not possible at present to say".

Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 20:21, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Oyster shells

Plutarch has an anecdote about an ostracism, where an illiterate rustic asks a superior citizen to write the name, on his behalf, 'on an oyster shell' - the irony being that the citizen he asks is the subject of the ostracism. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:44:B51C:7976:E255 (talk) 10:15, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Split proposal

I propose that this article be split into Ostracism (ancient Greece) and Ostracism (social behavior), leaving a disambiguation page at Ostracism. Apart from having the same name, it is not clear to me that these topics share the same subject. Essentially, I propose that the entire Modern usage section become the Ostracism (social behavior) article. Daask (talk) 15:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree that the discussion of "modern usage" isn't really in scope for an article on the Athenian practice of ostracism. I'm not sure that we need a new article for ostracism (social behaviour), though: I suspect that the content currently in that section can be moved into existing articles, such as shunning or silent treatment. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 14:15, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

I'd support a split if there is enough coverage to show it can be separate article from shunning.★Trekker (talk) 12:45, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Quorum

Both say 6000 for Plutarch and Philocrus (or something like that). Yet people said Plutarch's was better. 1q9w (talk) 01:37, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Plutarch says 6,000 votes total; Philochorus says 6,000 had to vote for the person being banished. So, for example, if 3,500 voted for Plutarch to be banished and 3,000 for Philochorus to be banished, under Plutarch's rule he would have been banished but under Philochorus' he would not. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 08:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Speculation on cultural impact

Hi, I added the OR tag to the "Distinction [etc]" section. The last paragraph in the section is speculation about how ostracism could have made ancient Athenians feel about each other.

Firstly, no sources cited. Secondly, (apparently) baseless speculation about the feelings of a historical group is definitely a historical narrative and thus not allowed.

Not sure who wrote the section and I'm not sure what to do with this myself, so for now I'm letting it stand with the OR tag. Apellosine (talk) 17:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HIST 103 - Ancient and Modern Democracy

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