Category talk:Zen Buddhist clergy

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I find it somewhat awkward to have this as a category, because "Zen master" is not a term with a consistent definition, and, in certain contexts, can be seen as highly laudatory and therefore not NPOV. Perhaps a move to something like "Category:Historical Zen teachers" would be in order. - Nat Krause 08:13, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also dislike the idea of a Zen master. I honor my spiritual ancestors, but "zen master" is misleading and NPOV. Zen teacher is more neutral. There are many great Western teachers (and their students) who shudder at the phrase "zen master," because it connotes to Westerners some sort of otherworldly, incorruptable, enlightened being who looks and acts like Yoda. In fact, most great Zen teachers I've known or read are error-prone (c.f. Dick Baker, my teachers, and Dogen's tendency to stay up late&drink sake). In soto temples, they/we chant through the buddhas and ancestors like "bishafu butsu daisho.... shakyamuni butsu daisho... bodhidharma daisho... taiso ekun daisho... eijei dogen daisho... sekito kisen daisho... butsomon shogaku daisho..." all the way on down to the founder of the temple "shogaku shunryu daisho." Daisho--- great teacher. The word I'm comfortable with.

If there are no objections, I will make this change next week. --Defenestrate 2 July 2005 17:44 (UTC)

Okay, but where are we thinking of moving it? Category:Daisho? (I thought it was Daiosho?) Basically, my idea is that I would like to keep this category for historical, pre-modern Zen priests—contra the user who recently added a bunch of moderns to this cat. - Nat Krause 6 July 2005 09:10 (UTC)