Talk:Turkish Angora

Stop Vandalism on the Turkish Angora Genetics section

Dodo bird said: Critical claims need better sourcing. Messybeast just repeating unattributed claims and allegations. 2012 study did contain Turkish Turkish Angora. Perceived differences should go in history section

I agree it can go to history section.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Messybeast investigates claims, not repeats. I suppose you are hidden breeder under name Dodo bird! It explains last study conclusions very well WHY American Angoras are DİFFERENT from Turkish.

Dodo bird said: That is not a direct quote from the study. Please add that info in a more appropriate way

Have you read the paper? No? So how do you know??

Quotes from the study:

All cats were representatives of their breed as found within the USA, except for the Australian Mist Cats and a few Turkish Angora and Turkish Van samples from international submissions.

The Turkish Angora breed was reconstituted from the Persian(European) pedigree post-World Wars, and their genetic diversity has recently been supplemented via outcrossing to Turkish random-bred cats. The identified subpopulations within the breed may reflect the latest influx of random-bred cats.

When analysed with data from SNPs and STRs, the Turkish Angora was assigned to Europe or to the Eastern Mediterranean

She means Turkish imports were assigned to Eastern Mediterranean while American Angoras- Europe.--Ankara Kedisi 09:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

When SNP and STR results were compared through Bayesian assignment, the Turkish Angora was assigned to Europe or the Eastern Mediterranean respectively,

again repeats same --Ankara Kedisi 09:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

More recent breeds, such as the Ragdoll and Bengal, are resolved as separate breed populations, suggesting STRs alone can differentiate about 24 of 29 breeds, in addition to Turkish- versus USA-originating Turkish Angoras. At K = 17, SNPs could separate Birman from other Asiatic breeds but not the Singapura. Thus, both sets of markers provide valuable insight into the relationship of the breeds.

Those sentences are from the same study! Variation of cats under domestication: genetic assignment of domestic cats to breeds and worldwide random-bred populations. Anim. Genet. 2012 Nov 22 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23171373 --Ankara Kedisi 09:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The latest genetic study confirmed that ″Turkish- versus USA-originating Turkish Angoras are resolved as separate breed populations″

This bolded part is not a direct quote from the study. As anyone can see if they compare it to the section you presented above. Like I said in the edit summary "Please add that info in a more appropriate way". I am not against adding that info. You just cannot take bits and pieces and put them as one quote.

She means Turkish imports were assigned to Eastern Mediterranean while American Angoras- Europe.

This is wrong. They group to Eastern Mediterranean when analysed using STR and grouped to Europe when analyzed using SNP. (See table 3s, or just note the word "respectively") There is no information on the Angora subgroups.

You are wrong there is a word subgroup mentioned later. They analysed both STR and other methods,and results were no different.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Others can weigh in on whether Messybeast is reliable enough for those claims. As I stated in the edit summary(that you presented here), she wrongly claims that only US Angoras are used in the 2012 study. As you have shown, the study involved Turkish-originating Turkish Angoras. --Dodo bird (talk) 10:05, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This is correct some Turkish imports were in study in 2012 (but ignored in 2007). I removed that part as it was confusing.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Persuan cats exust in persia iran.mirecthan 3000 years.while turkey is a country less than hundred if years becMe turkey from east roman empire .hiw persuan druved from angora ?thus page us another panturkish lue fir stilling other nations things. Bahmanrajabiun (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Are you blind or you haven't read an original scientific study?

It is the direct quote from the study can't you see? It talks about the Ragdoll AND Bengal cats as distinct breed and then additionally mentions the same goes for the Turkish and USA Angoras, please don't twist words here. It's clearly written. This bolded part IS a direct quote from the study. Do you want ı can send a paper for you to see?

I took many quotes which speak the similar things. You just ignored them. There is information about the subgroups - are you blind? It says some Angoras were categorized AS Mediterranean and some as European. This means they are DİFFERENT breeds! You can NOT be both at the same time!

Yes, mostly USA Angoras were used, but a FEW came from Turkey too. And those cats turned out are very different breed from USA pedigreed Angoras.

Do not argue with genetic data and try to make up your own conclusions here. You obviously have a vested interest in this topic. Are you somehow related with Turkish Angora breeders? Like mentioning Turkish Van and Angora are two different breeds we have a right to mention that the Angoras from USA are different from Turkish cats too. --Ankara Kedisi 11:16, 3 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

The Turkish Angora breed was reconstituted from the Persian(European) pedigree post-World Wars, and their genetic diversity has recently been supplemented via outcrossing to Turkish random-bred cats. The identified subpopulations within the breed may reflect the latest influx of random-bred cats

IDENTİFİED SUBPOPULATİONS - do you see this Dodo bird? The geneticists mean existing differences are due to recent imports - those few Turkish cats which were studied together with the American Turkish Angoras. Interesting when its mentioned that the Turkish Angora breed in America ″was reconstituted from the Persian″, trying to explain its European origins... --Ankara Kedisi 11:23, 3 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

You've accused me of vandalism, not reading the study, being a breeder(as if that means anything) and called me blind(oh the irony). All while failing to understand something as simple as how quotations work. Seriously, go fuck yourself. I'm done here.--Dodo bird (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

How quotations work? I am asking once again have you seen the whole study not only abstract I link to? I did, this is where quotes come from. You ignore don't read and misinterpret. Everything is said so clearly but you refuse to see this. What can I say, better get something else to do instead of removing the content which has sources from the scientific study - it's not something you can agree or not - the data shows these are different breed, so be it. Being a breeder doesn't make you a bad person, but certainly a biased editor.Ankara Kedisi 12:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

Ankara Zoo in 1917?

Ankara Zoo was established in 1933 according to official site http://www.ankarazoo.gov.tr (in Turkish only) However, in article it was said that: "In 1917, The Government of Turkey in conjunction with the Ankara Zoo began a meticulous breeding program..." Furthermore, the given reference for this sentence does not contain this information at all. 88.230.215.25 (talk) 21:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC) A. Bölme

Personality

This article completes neglects the characteristics of this breed's personality traits. For example, certain breeds bond with one owner. Certain breeds are extremely sensitive or moody. Certain breeds don't really bond with any owner and prefer their own independence. From what I have heard, the Turkish cats bond with one single owner and prefer a very close relationship.

Their personality traits are a very important part of the breed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.17.65.14 (talk) 01:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Some remarks

• I thought about and decided against moving this page under the title of "Ankara cat" for the simple reason that Google gave 28,200 hits for "Turkish Angora", and 173 hits for "Ankara cat". So, Turkish Angora it is. Ankara cat redirects, and there's also a link from Angora.
• British Angora cat is not related to the Angora Cat (also known as "Turkish Angora", "Ankara cat", etc.). It is a man-made breed originated in Britain in mid 20th century, based on Java/Bali cats.

Mu5ti 11:42, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

• I completely agree with all of the behavioral characteristics - my cat exhibits every one! --JTA 16:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Ankara Cats doesn't have odd eyes. Van cats have. <-- wrong, they may have, it happens often for white ankara cats (C. Arnoux)

Fair use rationale for Image:ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Swimming

If swimming is one of the important characteristics of this breed, the article would benefit from a photo of one of these cats enjoying being wet. --Una Smith (talk) 04:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Better Picture

Can we not get a better headline picture? It looks like a stray in between coats and it looks awful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.232.81.41 (talk) 17:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

File:Agora_green.jpg I just adjusted a better one. (Yezdannuri (talk) 11:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

File:Phylogenetic tree.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Phylogenetic tree.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests March 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Phylogenetic tree.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 22:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Genetics study

Please stop reverting each other and start using this talk page to argue your position. If you keep this up both of you will can be blocked for Wikipedia:Edit warring.--Dodo bird (talk) 02:41, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Genetics of Turkish Angora cats

The following section is an interpretation of scientific study, using evidence from the The ascent of cat breeds: Genetic evaluations of breeds and worldwide random-bred populations. This interpretation does not appear to agree with the publication. Phylogenetic trees do NOT show that anything is "more related" than any other breed, it only shows the origin of the gene pool overall.

Yes, this is correct, it shows the origin of the Turkish Angora being more North African and having influence from western cat breeds. Why play with words? Phylogenetic trees only show similarities of origin, rather than genetic relation, calling into question the interpretation that the Turkish Angora is "more related" to any particular breed of cat. Similarities or relation, but origin shown in phylogenetic tree is North African. Why Turkish street cats which are in separated branch with İsreal, but not with Turkish Angora. Isn't Angora a cat breed originated in Turkey? The paper itself states that North African, Tunisian cats as well breed Egyptian Mau have strong connection to Western cats)--Ankara Kedisi 05:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Removed genetics attack subsection

I removed the entire following attack subsection from the "Genetics" section:

===Clarification===
{{tone|date=December 2012}}
It is clear from the graphs contained in the 2012 Turkish Cat Genetics Study that the majority of the Turkish Angora samples submitted show only minor traces of the original Ankara Zoo cats.{{Citation needed|date=September 2012}} Ankara Zoo sample No 9575 shows a 72.14% signature mistakenly referred to as the Cyprus group since it is also common to many Cyprus cats—whereas the Turkish Angoras of the cat fancy show a generally insignificant but widely variable percentage this critical identifying signature.{{Citation needed|date=September 2012}} Other examples from Turkey that show these signatures are 13558, 76.77%, and 9702, 97.02%.{{Citation needed|date=September 2012}} Supposed samples from Turkey that matched the cat fancy Angoras cannot be verified or confirmed. In fact, the supposed authors of those samples deny any knowledge of them.{{Citation needed|date=September 2012}} Considering that these "scientific studies" from the genetics laboratory of Leslie Lyons of UC Davis assume that American Turkish Angoras are the authentic Turkish Angoras, as her website says, then cats that differ from those samples are not Turkish Angoras. This is highly flawed and misleading pseudo-science, which breeders may consider genetic proof.{{Citation needed|date=September 2012}} Please note that the 2012 Turkish Cat Genetics Study was neither published nor is available on a webpage but consists only of an e-mail with attached graphs sent to interested Turkish cat breeders. Further details and citations may be obtainable at.- http://www.turkishangoracat.org/arastirma.aspx?arastirmaId=1

If anything like this, scrubbed of attack language, is reinserted, it needs reliable sources. If material in the extant "Genetics" section is disputed, then remove it and hash out the disputes here. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ^⊝כ^⊙þ Contrib. 03:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Popular culture

Why "In popular culture" section is removed from the article? Joe feyzullah (talk) 18:54, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Excess of images?

As per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE Sankofa Chiswick (talk) 10:30, 30 November 2022 (UTC)